Octopus Overlords

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I played Terraforming Mars for the first time yesterday with some randos at a board game meet-up group (just moved to a new city where I don't know anyone). The game itself seemed pretty cool and I had fun learning it, but it took us about 4 hours to finish (granted with the first hour mainly being teaching the game to three newbies). I imagine it'll get somewhat faster once everyone knows the rules, but it still seemed like a game that might regularly take 2.5 - 3 hours with four players.

Depends on what you are using in the game. If playing with "the corporate era" and with drafting then yes it can hit 3 hours with 4 players, even if they know the game.
Without corporate era and no drafting it is quite a bit shorter, we play it 4 players in under 2 hours. Still as much as I like the game (and I really do) I can't help but feel that it has a tendency to stay a little too long. Especially with drafting, which is a shame because drafting really improves the game. Still I really like it.

Defiant wrote:Games I've played lately:
Yokohama

I have really been enjoying this one quite a bit. Happy I backed the deluxe version, it's a fun interesting route planning game.

I've been playing Yamatai. It's the new Days of Wonder game (they do 1 a year essentially). Right off the bat it is a beautiful game. Great bright vibrant colors and chunky wooden pieces, and as always Days of Wonder has really continued to set the bar high.

The purpose of the game is... victory points (here disguised as prestige points...) which you get primarily by creatively building on the various islands. You get points for building on mountains, or next to temples. You get money by building adjacent to each other. In order to build buildings you have to build fleets of boats around the islands providing the goods necessary to build buildings. Nobody owns the various bots, you pick a fleet every turn, then place the boats for the fleet (according to certain placement rules), then you can build buildings if you can. The game also has "specialists" which you can recruit that basically give you individual powers, but you can grab as many of them as you can so you can really stack up your powers.

I find the game to be in line with most Days Of Wonder releases. For me it falls somewhere around the same place as Five Tribes, but may even be slightly better, ever so slightly. For me that is fairly high praise. I've only played it 2 players so far but I really enjoy it. Looking forward to trying it with more players. Also it is beautiful to look at.

Chrisoc13 wrote:

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I played Terraforming Mars for the first time yesterday with some randos at a board game meet-up group (just moved to a new city where I don't know anyone). The game itself seemed pretty cool and I had fun learning it, but it took us about 4 hours to finish (granted with the first hour mainly being teaching the game to three newbies). I imagine it'll get somewhat faster once everyone knows the rules, but it still seemed like a game that might regularly take 2.5 - 3 hours with four players.

Depends on what you are using in the game. If playing with "the corporate era" and with drafting then yes it can hit 3 hours with 4 players, even if they know the game.
Without corporate era and no drafting it is quite a bit shorter, we play it 4 players in under 2 hours. Still as much as I like the game (and I really do) I can't help but feel that it has a tendency to stay a little too long. Especially with drafting, which is a shame because drafting really improves the game. Still I really like it.

Is that the basic version, where you start with some production? Yeah, that'll speed up the game some.

I still wish that the cards were less randomized, using something like the system 7 Wonders has, where cards useful for the early game are more likely to show up earlier, and ones more useful for later show up later. If that were implemented, I would like the game more.

I guess we played with a mix of rules: we all started as nameless corporations with money and 10 cards, but between rounds we drafted cards. I liked the drafting mechanism but it certainly adds a bit of time to the game.

Defiant wrote:

Chrisoc13 wrote:

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I played Terraforming Mars for the first time yesterday with some randos at a board game meet-up group (just moved to a new city where I don't know anyone). The game itself seemed pretty cool and I had fun learning it, but it took us about 4 hours to finish (granted with the first hour mainly being teaching the game to three newbies). I imagine it'll get somewhat faster once everyone knows the rules, but it still seemed like a game that might regularly take 2.5 - 3 hours with four players.

Depends on what you are using in the game. If playing with "the corporate era" and with drafting then yes it can hit 3 hours with 4 players, even if they know the game.
Without corporate era and no drafting it is quite a bit shorter, we play it 4 players in under 2 hours. Still as much as I like the game (and I really do) I can't help but feel that it has a tendency to stay a little too long. Especially with drafting, which is a shame because drafting really improves the game. Still I really like it.

Is that the basic version, where you start with some production? Yeah, that'll speed up the game some.

I still wish that the cards were less randomized, using something like the system 7 Wonders has, where cards useful for the early game are more likely to show up earlier, and ones more useful for later show up later. If that were implemented, I would like the game more.

Yes not the learner game but not the corporate era either. Corporate era with drafting really lengthens the game a lot.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I guess we played with a mix of rules: we all started as nameless corporations with money and 10 cards, but between rounds we drafted cards. I liked the drafting mechanism but it certainly adds a bit of time to the game.

Drafting is a variant rule but yes it will add an hour plus especially if you don't know the game before. We play the regular rules which is named corporations with ten cards you can choose to pay for (you only start with cards you pay for) and starting resources as outlined on the corporate cards and 1 production of each resource. That's the non corporate era regular rules.

Sale alert: I picked up Armageddon for less than 14 bucks on Amazon. That sale price is still valid.

The game plays like a sequel to my beloved 51st State. The worker placement is more pronounced, and there's a bidding/auction component, but the game feels VERY much like 51st State. Dice Tower gave it a seal of approval, I believe. For 13 bucks or so, it's worth it, I would say.

hepcat wrote:Sale alert: I picked up Armageddon for less than 14 bucks on Amazon. That sale price is still valid.

Such a disappointing game. It doesn't follow the plot of the movie at all, and my custom Liv Tyler and Ben Affleck miniatures look terrible on the board.

I discovered Gloomhaven 2nd print is not likely to his stores until late September, so... I have made a commitment to learn and play Terraforming Mars with chaosraven and redrun this weekend. That is pretty big for me, as I think OctoCon may have been the last time I played games. Dropping $60 for the game, even if only played once, seems like a small price to pay to actually leave my house for something other than work or groceries or family and see friends.

Also with Gloomhaven, does anyone have recommendations for add ons? Like removable decals for the playing board and such? I know the game is meant to be play it once and put it away, but that offends my sensibilities.

Photocopy the stickers and glue them to sheet magnets, and a copy of the board on a magnetic whiteboard?

A clear shower curtain wrapped around the board and copied stickers glued to the sheet?

I bought the removable stickers, but I honestly wouldn't recommend it. There's a LOT of hours in this game, so I highly doubt you'd want to replay it after finishing it...if you ever finished it, that is.

I would just grab a couple of small plano boxes for the counters and call it a day when it comes to add ons. The box it comes in is freakin' huge, it's easy enough to just put the legacy stuff (finished quest cards, etc.) into baggies when you're done with them, and the cards fit nicely into their original slots. Save your money and just enjoy the game.

Isgrimnur wrote:Photocopy the stickers and glue them to sheet magnets, and a copy of the board on a magnetic whiteboard?

A clear shower curtain wrapped around the board and copied stickers glued to the sheet?

Wait...you were joking, right?

Isgrimnur wrote:Photocopy the stickers and glue them to sheet magnets, and a copy of the board on a magnetic whiteboard?

A clear shower curtain wrapped around the board and copied stickers glued to the sheet?

BGG has PDF stuff they recommend but I also see third parties selling stuff, so I dunno. I guess I'll have to get it figured out. I saw henzau happily putting stickers on a board at OctoCon on a one way trip to using and forgeting the game and I was mortified.

hepcat wrote:I bought the removable stickers, but I honestly wouldn't recommend it. There's a LOT of hours in this game, so I highly doubt you'd want to replay it after finishing it...if you ever finished it, that is.

I'm more wondering about the possibility of running concurrent campaigns, as we have done with other games like Descent. It might just be that I am not familiar enough with the actual game... I'm all tingly to find out though.

You can always switch out characters easily enough. We have about 5 people who drop in and out. The game includes a catch up mechanic so those who don't play as much can easily keep up with everyone else who has leveled up.

Also, with a legacy system, I feel you'd dampen the fun by ruining the surprises (new characters, changes to the game world, etc.).

But if you'd like to do so, you can order a full set of removable stickers from Sinister Fish for about 20 bucks with shipping. And/or grab the map board in pdf format off BGG that allows you to dynamically keep track of all changes (stickers, prosperity levels, etc.). Although the pdf won't allow you to add stickers to the hero cards.

Personally, I doubt you'll bother with any of this once you start playing though. Just enjoy it. By the time you finish it (hundreds of hours later), a new Gloomhaven game from the maker should be available.

LordMortis wrote:I know the game is meant to be play it once and put it away, but that offends my sensibilities.

Wait, it is? Ugh. Another one off my list. I *always* play games with different groups of people, and we rarely completely finish campaigns before trying something new and restarting later.

hepcat wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote:Photocopy the stickers and glue them to sheet magnets, and a copy of the board on a magnetic whiteboard?

A clear shower curtain wrapped around the board and copied stickers glued to the sheet?

Wait...you were joking, right?

Not at all. I try to solve problems.

The game is perfect for drop ins. Heck, you could even give the game to another group and let them level up your characters for you.

Isgrimnur wrote:

hepcat wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote:Photocopy the stickers and glue them to sheet magnets, and a copy of the board on a magnetic whiteboard?

A clear shower curtain wrapped around the board and copied stickers glued to the sheet?

Wait...you were joking, right?

Not at all. I try to solve problems.

The easiest way to solve his problem would be to just buy two or more copies of the game.

Isgrimnur wrote: A clear shower curtain wrapped around the board and copied stickers glued to the sheet?

I haven't seen the board or watched any play of it, but if the problem is stickers on the board, get a cheap poster frame (under ten bucks), put the plexiglass cover on top of the board, and use wet-erase markers. It's what I've done with pre-printed RPG maps for years, and it works beautifully.

You'll never feel like you missed out. There is that much content. And plenty of characters--I think everyone has their own in hepcat's game. I may have missed the mission that led to a location being added, but it's pretty clear what is happening in a mission once it starts.

I've probably put in around 30 hours or more between multiple groups and we STILL have not unlocked the first new character out of the 12 or so available.

hepcat wrote:I've probably put in around 30 hours or more between multiple groups and we STILL have not unlocked the first new character out of the 12 or so available.

Yeah, I like a lot about the game but I think the long-term character development and campaign pacing is way too slow.

wonderpug wrote:

hepcat wrote:I've probably put in around 30 hours or more between multiple groups and we STILL have not unlocked the first new character out of the 12 or so available.

Yeah, I like a lot about the game but I think the long-term character development and campaign pacing is way too slow.

Maybe it's intentional so that you feel you got your money's worth if you use the game as intended, which is one and done.. I already pre-ordered the sinister fish sticker pack. Even if I never play it again, I will always want the option for it.

Punisher wrote:

wonderpug wrote:

hepcat wrote:I've probably put in around 30 hours or more between multiple groups and we STILL have not unlocked the first new character out of the 12 or so available.

Yeah, I like a lot about the game but I think the long-term character development and campaign pacing is way too slow.

Maybe it's intentional so that you feel you got your money's worth if you use the game as intended, which is one and done.. I already pre-ordered the sinister fish sticker pack. Even if I never play it again, I will always want the option for it.

Ok, so they sell a pack for 8 pounds, that should come out to be *gets calculator*... something like $80.

I thought Gloomhaven was replayable. Not that it matters, because I doubt I will get 100+ hours into it. But that is a little disappointing in the long run.

baelthazar wrote:

Punisher wrote:

wonderpug wrote:

hepcat wrote:I've probably put in around 30 hours or more between multiple groups and we STILL have not unlocked the first new character out of the 12 or so available.

Yeah, I like a lot about the game but I think the long-term character development and campaign pacing is way too slow.

Maybe it's intentional so that you feel you got your money's worth if you use the game as intended, which is one and done.. I already pre-ordered the sinister fish sticker pack. Even if I never play it again, I will always want the option for it.

Ok, so they sell a pack for 8 pounds, that should come out to be *gets calculator*... something like $80.

I thought Gloomhaven was replayable. Not that it matters, because I doubt I will get 100+ hours into it. But that is a little disappointing in the long run.

It is, when you are ready to start over you break out your second copy.

Terraforming Mars arrived. Not a lot in the box for $60 but alas, I am old. Still, $60 for a days entertainment, assuming it is entertaining, isn't too much to pay at this stage in life, I guess.

Looking forward to reading the rules at lunch... And seeing people and playing a game this weekend!

Edit:

Box is opened. Why is there no tray inside that holds the cards and loose tokens? For $60, shouldn't this be standard?

Re: Gloomhaven...

I get the impression that people don't understand.

There are 96 scenarios. 96! Those vary in difficulty, but even for a very good group that doesn't spend any extra time on strategy, it's unlikely that many will be <60 minutes to complete. And that's not counting city activity, traveling activity, setup, etc.

Also, this is a "living" world. The only benefit to being "the first" to discover a location is, depending on the location, possibly 1 time rewards (which usually mean a couple copies of a new item get added to the store in town - and thus available for anyone in town with gold), and the joy of being the ones to actually draw the card/event that opens the location up.

Even for the main quest line, I fail to see how having the stickers for the next locations in the quest help. You are going to advance to the next location based on the "lead" from the last location.

It would be roughly the equivalent of having a game where all the locations were already known, and you just picked which scenario to go do. There is a completely playable game without worrying about a location already being discovered.

We tried goddamn Sentinel Hill again in Mansions of Madness last night. We collectively agreed it was an embarrassment to our gaming expertise that we could not legitimately win this scenario.

Again I won't go into spoilers, but we were doing everything right. We managed sanity, we managed health, we had evidence, we had clues, we were sitting pretty for the final fight. We were firing on all cylinders, and were basically going through the motions to finish the game and finally put this beast behind us.

Then a devastating series of dice rolls and weird events forced me to go insane. All I needed was 2 successes on 6 dice. I roll all blanks and one success. We all looked at each other. There's no way I'd pull some bullshit insanity card that would cause us to lose once again. No way this came down to rolling 5 blanks. Not after three hours of absolutely brilliant gameplay....

And I draw one that had a win condition that was absolutely impossible to fulfill. We lose. Instantly.

I swear if we had not been playing in a conference room, Terry would have flipped the table. He spent 10 minutes cussing the game, H.P. Lovecraft, Fantasy Flight, dice, and anything else he could think of.

It is REALLY frustrating, however, that this game can literally be won or lost on the basis of one card draw after three hours of play. Granted you can claim moral victories or whatever, but we're all rules sticklers and don't like to fudge things. There are a lot of players that ditch those extreme insanity cards altogether, but we haven't reached that point yet.

So Sentinel Hill still remains elusively out of reach.

YellowKing wrote:Then a devastating series of dice rolls and weird events forced me to go insane. All I needed was 2 successes on 6 dice. I roll all blanks and one success. We all looked at each other. There's no way I'd pull some bullshit insanity card that would cause us to lose once again. No way this came down to rolling 5 blanks. Not after three hours of absolutely brilliant gameplay....

And I draw one that had a win condition that was absolutely impossible to fulfill. We lose. Instantly.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what happened... but you might be doing something wrong. If someone goes insane and draws a card that alters his winning condition, it's just his winning condition, not the whole group. We played a scenario where I went insane and drew the card that's something about not wanting to feel weakness (I lose the game if I become wounded). Those insanity cards are kept secret... but in light-roleplaying style I started pestering players with the ability to heal damage to try and take care of me. Later in the game I was wounded... I knew at that point that the game was lost, for me, but the game keeps going. Only after we finished the scenario (with a win!) did I reveal my insanity card and sadly explain that I didn't get to share in the victory, because they were all so stingy with the bandages

There's one insanity card with a really nasty alteration to the win condition... where if you find yourself alone with another investigator you win and everyone else loses (the implication being you've switched sides and kill the other one). That can be a very unsatisfying end to the game (unless you're the insane one, who's now "won") and some people suggest removing that from the deck.

Ah, thanks for that clarification Daveman. That helps soothe the sting slightly, as we did go on to defeat the big bad. I think our group is so tight-knit we're of the "if we don't all win, none of us wins" mentality, but personally I have no problem taking the fall for the group as a whole.

YellowKing wrote:I have no problem taking the fall for the group as a whole.

Then you'll love the "Greater Good" insanity card! Spoiling this if you'd rather not know:

Played two games of Terraforming Mars.

Played the Basic Coporations, 3 player, ended with a very close game (spread within about 8 points, 1st and 2nd 3 apart).

Next we tried the deal 2 choose 1 Corporations. End game was 1st ahead of 2nd by 8, 3rd trailed 12 more behind.

In both games that decisive Point Spread was really due to the monopoly of Milestone and/or Award claims.
Those 5pt hits are serious jumps, and if ignored by the other players wins the game.
In a 3 player, each player really needs to claim one each of the Milestone and Award to keep an even keel, and then work on the 2pt second place of the other 2 awards.

IMO, of course.

Then we played a pair of King of New York with the Power Up Evolutions for KoNY.

I am glad they created King of Tokyo Evolutions for the KoNY Characters so you can use them in KoT as well as KoNY, but am sad they have not made KoNY Evolutions for either the original KoT Characters nor the Promo Characters (Who have neither).

Thanks to redrun for hosting, and LordMortis for taking me along.

Thanks for playing. I never want to leave the house but I have never ended a day saying "I can't believe I wasted a day gaming and seeing friends", even if I am drained the next day.

I hope we get out again and Terraforming Mars gets on the table again. I'm looking forward to expanding to the corporate cards, and possibly the draft... And maybe even growing plants one game...

My brother was in town and we spent today up at my parent's house. Found our old Fireball Island game from 31 years ago in their basement, and spent a couple hours playing. Little B 8.4 absolutely loved it.

The people at the board gaming meet-up I've started going to are obsessed with Transforming Mars. They all talked about that it was the only game they want to play and it sounds like some of them have been playing it many times a week if not multiple times a day. I played one five player game with them (got beat soundly); it took about three hours and afterwards, when I mentioned some of the other games we might play, they just wanted to start up another game of TM.

Skinypupy wrote:My brother was in town and we spent today up at my parent's house. Found our old Fireball Island game from 31 years ago in their basement, and spent a couple hours playing. Little B 8.4 absolutely loved it.

Holy crap... that's the one with... <searches>... yup. Awesome. Loved that kind of thing as a kid, right up there with Dark Tower.

Didn't think to do something with them before moving out and when I did, Mom had already thrown them away.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:The people at the board gaming meet-up I've started going to are obsessed with Transforming Mars. They all talked about that it was the only game they want to play and it sounds like some of them have been playing it many times a week if not multiple times a day. I played one five player game with them (got beat soundly); it took about three hours and afterwards, when I mentioned some of the other games we might play, they just wanted to start up another game of TM.

Our games also seemed to be around 3 hours. I didn't feel like 3 hours took forever though, so I'm OK with that but that it means a full day of gaming might be one or two rounds of TM and then mindless games.

MonkeyFinger wrote:

Skinypupy wrote:My brother was in town and we spent today up at my parent's house. Found our old Fireball Island game from 31 years ago in their basement, and spent a couple hours playing. Little B 8.4 absolutely loved it.

Holy crap... that's the one with... <searches>... yup. Awesome. Loved that kind of thing as a kid, right up there with Dark Tower.

Didn't think to do something with them before moving out and when I did, Mom had already thrown them away.

And yet I've never heard of it.... But the texture does remind me of something. Some other game I can't think of...

We were commenting at how remarkably well it has held up over 30+ years. The board is still in perfect condition, where I would have expected the plastic to start getting brittle. Outside of a couple bent edges on the cards, everything is still in tip-top shape. How we managed to get through our combined childhoods without either a foot or a toy going through that board is a complete mystery.

The gameplay itself is rather 'meh', but nostalgia goes a long way. Especially when my daughter (who is the same age I was when I got it) is really getting into it.

I still have a copy of Fireball Island. The cards are well worn and the game box is certainly worn, but the board and pieces are mostly fine. It has been played at least once every year by young cousins at Christmas, so it is remarkable that it is still as nice as it is.

Yesterday I had a full day of gaming with my house guests. They're leaving today, so I'm mad I won't get this level of gaming again any time soon.

We started with Terraforming Mars, which they bought me as a late birthday present. I absolutely love this one. They hype is true. You never feel disengaged, you can change your strategy on a dime if you feel the current one you're pursuing isn't going to pan out, and the huge number of cards/projects are varied and fun. I just want to play this one over and over now.

We then broke out Sword and Sorcery for quest 2 in our campaign. It was tough, I died...twice, but we eventually were able to fight our way to the end. So much fun. What a great dungeon crawler. Massive Darkness is going to have to be VERY good to top this one.

Finally, we ended with a favorite, Clank. I won by running to the first artifact and then back out again almost immediately after I noticed everyone else going deep too fast. It was a tactic I never expected to work...but did so wonderfully. I even killed everyone else off before they got out, thus preventing their 20 point bonus that would've cost me the game.

hepcat wrote:We started with Terraforming Mars, which they bought me as a late birthday present. I absolutely love this one. They hype is true. You never feel disengaged, you can change your strategy on a dime if you feel the current one you're pursuing isn't going to pan out, and the huge number of cards/projects are varied and fun. I just want to play this one over and over now.

You can change your strategy but you can't change your engine that was pursuing that strategy. In our second game, I planned on being a greenery/heat machine. Redrun decimated my plant production turn after turn and he stole my heat building thunder to boot. While he was off pursuing other things I took all of the awards and retooled my energy into building megacredits instead of heat. It rewarded me handsomely. While my strategy had to evolve because of the major screw yous from redrun my machine was still based on energy production (because that's what my corporation had bonuses to).

Anyhoo, with every card being different and with several different levels of play and expansion due out in a few weeks, I'm a bit enchanted with the game.

It really does seem like as long as you are playing you are never out and a three hour game goes pretty fast. The one thing I think that is dangerous with regard to getting knocked out, is that if you are going to ignore pursuing awards and milestones, it should be because you have a clear path victory points without them. In our second game, they let me take all of the milestones and choose all three awards and that gave me a 30 point swing that they simply couldn't overcome with all of their nifty VP producing engines.

How is the solo variant on Terraforming Mars? I'd love to get it at some point, but not sure if my gaming group would be willing to shoehorn it into our already packed schedule. If the solo variant is worthwhile, however, I could probably justify owning it and getting group play in down the road.