Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:09 pm

Less testing = less infections = winning.

Default · Post by **Default** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:25 pm

The mental health beating I'm taking with this pandemic is going to leave scars for a long time.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:45 pm

Melania Trump breaks children's hospital rules by taking her mask off to read to patients

First lady Melania Trump broke stated mask policy at Children's National Hospital Tuesday when she removed her mask to read a holiday book to children. The first lady arrived in the hospital's main atrium wearing a mask. When she took her seat in front of a tree, she removed the mask. Though she practiced social distancing, the hospital's policy specifically requires all visitors to wear a mask. "Everyone must wear a mask at all times while in any Children's National facility to prevent the spread of COVID-19," the hospital's policy says.

I guess she was thinking "Oh they'll be ok, they're already in a hospital" . Damn COVID family.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:33 pm

People just dont listen and just dont care. They will do what they want in the face of death,

Santa, Mrs. Claus expose children to COVID at tree lighting

Parker said the pair, who didn't display any symptoms during the event, portrayed the Clauses for “many years” and had good intentions.

Dozens of children who attended a tree lighting event in Georgia may have been exposed to COVID-19 after a pair performing as Santa and Mrs. Claus tested positive for the virus, officials said.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:19 pm

JFC, I can't:

A top Trump appointee repeatedly urged top health officials to adopt a "herd immunity" approach to Covid-19 and allow millions of Americans to be infected by the virus, according to internal emails obtained by a House watchdog and shared with POLITICO.

“There is no other way, we need to establish herd, and it only comes about allowing the non-high risk groups expose themselves to the virus. PERIOD," then-science adviser Paul Alexander wrote on July 4 to his boss, Health and Human Services assistant secretary for public affairs Michael Caputo, and six other senior officials.

"Infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle aged with no conditions etc. have zero to little risk….so we use them to develop herd…we want them infected…" Alexander added.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:48 pm

I've said it before but they are flat out murderers or negligent homiciders if that offends the senses. This isn't a shock. Look what they were doing the whole time.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:48 pm

First, that's terrible. Second, this seems sketchy as hell.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/p ... story.html

"Our highly scarce product for which literally the whole world is waiting accidentally comes with 20-40% more doses than we had previously advised."

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:55 pm

That is a pretty serious QA error. It doesn't inspire confidence in their process at the moment.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:02 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:48 pm I've said it before but they are flat out murderers or negligent homiciders if that offends the senses. This isn't a shock. Look what they were doing the whole time.

Like...we could all collectively infer this was their grand plan based on their actions. But to have proof in writing that it really was their intention? There needs to be consequences for those that pushed this agenda.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:06 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:55 pm That is a pretty serious QA error. It doesn't inspire confidence in their process at the moment.

There's usually a little bit extra in each vial to account for errors while manually filling the syringe, but I'm surprised to hear there's enough for at least one more full dose. They could have been hedging their bets to make sure there was enough - manually filling of syringes at the level that's about to happen is not common. I can say from personal experience there's always at least one or two issues when nurses are manually pre-filling flu vaccines to cover ~50-100 people.

disarm · Post by **disarm** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:09 pm

As someone who is constantly drawing medications out of vials for my job, the "extra doses" really aren't unusual. It's totally normal for a vial to be overfilled slightly rather than come up short. In the case of this vaccine, I'm guessing that the amount for a single dose is so small (vaccines usually are very small volume) that even a very small overfill (fraction of a milliliter) could be enough for another dose.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 pm

disarm wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:09 pm As someone who is constantly drawing medications out of vials for my job, the "extra doses" really aren't unusual. It's totally normal for a vial to be overfilled slightly rather than come up short. In the case of this vaccine, I'm guessing that the amount for a single dose is so small (vaccines usually are very small volume) that even a very small overfill (fraction of a milliliter) could be enough for another dose.

I was hoping you guys would chime in. I figured it was normal to have some extra. My eyebrows were raised more by the notion that some folks just discovered now that hey, we can get 6 doses rather than 5 out of each vial. We're going to have a shortage of this stuff for many months--wouldn't this have been in the plan from the start of production?

Maybe I'm overthinking it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:17 pm

Was just talking this over with my wife. She works in liquid cosmetics and overfills are one of their constant problems. Her blind guess is that they had to run their automated lines with vials that didn't match the spec of the high speed filling machines exactly. Which makes sense -- if that is indeed what happened -- since they had to throw this together very quickly. Still I find a 20-40% variance to not be a "little more" - it is a pretty sizable error.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:20 pm

I will now cease bitching and take solace in the fact that this seems to be good news, whatever the cause

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:24 pm

At the very least, it appears the FDA stepped up quickly and gave the pharmacists solid guidance. Apparently they've been throwing away the extra sixth or seventh doses.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:28 pm

I thought most vaccines came pre syringed these days.

disarm · Post by **disarm** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:17 pm

Daehawk wrote:I thought most vaccines came pre syringed these days.

Many do, but it wasn't possible with the rapid rollout of these vaccines. Preparing so many pre-filled syringes before having an approved dosing and administration protocol isn't really feasible...much easier to package it in vials that can be drawn up in whatever appropriate syringe is available. It's also much easier to ship and store the vaccine at ultra-low temperatures in bulk packaging than a bunch of single-dose units.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:41 pm

So what was expected to last for five ends up being enough for seven?

How appropriate, given that it's Hannukah.

(closest thing to a menorah smiley I could find).

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:52 pm

Anyone take notice of the needles they've shown used in the videos? Big ass ones. Not as in long but around. Saw them have to push good to break the skin on one subject..pushpushBONK in it went. Wonder if its just what the place chose to use or if the vaccine requires some size to it.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:09 pm

It's an IM injection - standard size needle. There's nothing special going on here.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:40 pm

ABC News

The director of the White House security office, Crede Bailey, was in an intensive care unit for three months and had part of his leg amputated after contracting COVID-19 several months ago, according to a fundraising campaign set up to help him.

Bailey, who recently moved to a full-time rehabilitation facility, now faces significant medical bills, according to the online fundraiser. He was hospitalized in September after falling ill with the coronavirus, people familiar with his condition told ABC News.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:07 am

Daehawk wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:52 pm Anyone take notice of the needles they've shown used in the videos? Big ass ones. Not as in long but around. Saw them have to push good to break the skin on one subject..pushpushBONK in it went. Wonder if its just what the place chose to use or if the vaccine requires some size to it.

It's like when they use those giant checks at charity photo ops.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:33 am

So Tennessee has been identified as the location with the highest rate of COVID-19 infections per capita in the country, and probably in the world. "The Board of Health considered sending a resolution to Governor Bill Lee’s office to request a state-wide mask mandate."

FFS, TN, take that first baby step.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:00 am

Bah the Gov and the mayors wont close or mask mandate anything or anyone. Could cost them a vote. If anyone is left alive to vote.

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:40 am

Some more encouraging news RE: the vaccine. Our hospital won't be getting it right off the bat, which sounds a little odd to say about a level 1 trauma center with over 600 beds. But as we're pediatrics we don't see near the volume of covid that so many others are experiencing and so, rightly, those adult facilities are getting shipments first. Says something that there was actual planning going on here and it wasn't just a 'who signed up first' or 'do you know someone on the task force' kind of idiocy we've come to expect from this administration.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:01 am

Daehawk wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:00 am Bah the Gov and the mayors wont close or mask mandate anything or anyone. Could cost them a vote. If anyone is left alive to vote.

My parents are in Tennessee and my mom got it. The irony is that they had planned to move back up north this summer but had to postpone due to COVID. They're stuck until at least spring.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:52 pm

From the AP (and for those that have kids that are following all this):

Will children be able to get Covid vaccines?

Not until there’s enough data from studies in different age groups, which will stretch well into next year.

The Pfizer vaccine authorized in the U.S. this month is for people 16 and older. Testing began in October in children as young as 12 and is expected to take several more months. The Food and Drug Administration will have to decide when there’s enough data to allow emergency use in this age group.

Depending on the results, younger children may be enrolled for study as well.

Moderna, which is expected to become the second Covid-19 vaccine greenlit in the U.S., began enrolling study participants ages 12 to 17 this month and will track them for a year. Testing in children younger than 12 is expected to start in early 2021.

It is uncertain if the results on younger children will come in time for vaccinations to begin before the next school year.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:40 pm

Sweden

Sweden’s king said in a new address that the country’s strategy to slow the spread of COVID-19 has “failed” as the fatality count in the Scandinavian country continues to rise.

Carl XVI Gustaf told residents of the country in his annual Christmas address that Sweden has suffered “enormously” amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic and it is “traumatic” that many loved ones of the nearly 8,000 people who have died from COVID-19 were unable to say goodbye to them in person.

“I think we have failed. We have a large number who have died and that is terrible. It is something we all have to suffer with,” the king said in comments that were released on Thursday and will be broadcast in full on Monday, as translated by the Financial Times.
...
Sweden’s top infectious disease expert said late last month that the country has not seen evidence of herd immunity slowing the spread of COVID-19 in the country.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:05 pm

He seems so upset over a measly 8000 dead.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:59 pm

The bottom graph is what I'm interested in...the top one...I'm not too sure where it comes from.

https://twitter.com/percyhoward_/status ... 4806584323

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:31 pm

malchior wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:59 pm the top one...I'm not too sure where it comes from.

It comes from here (Cato Institute).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:15 pm

Freedumb to go to strip clubs is more important than public health in San Diego.

Two San Diego strip clubs can remain open and make their own determinations about providing a safe environment for dancers and patrons during the pandemic, a judge ruled Wednesday. The decision dealt a setback to Gov. Gavin Newsom's health order that calls for such establishments to be shuttered.

The scope of San Diego Superior Court Judge Joel Wohlfeil's preliminary injunction appeared to extend far beyond the two clubs that sued the state to potentially all of the thousands of restaurants in San Diego County, the state's second-largest county after Los Angeles. On Wednesday night, Supervisor Jim Desmond tweeted that the judge "has directed the county to allow businesses with resturant services to operate their business safely and responsibly."

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:53 pm

Bewbs are essential, it seems.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:27 pm

So I happened to come across this. The amount of people piling in to say the chart posted by the County Supervisor was inaccurate and political is infuriating.

https://twitter.com/FlipperForty/status ... 2632927232

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:28 pm

I don't want to say because I don't think it's public yet (likely tomorrow) but at some point when you have such a high percentage (last official public number was 78%) of people in the Jerz refusing to cooperate with contact tracers, something has to give. The amount of money and effort being spent on tracing to simply enter "would not cooperate" into a database is truly puzzling.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:59 pm

I think this is all tied to the death spiral our nation is in. The Atlantic had a piece a little while back about how trust in other people and institutions in the United States is falling precipitously. We are the only advanced democracy to show this trend. In this climate people might believe cooperation doesn't matter; perhaps they think that their insurance company or their job or whoever will find out and they'll get discriminated against. Or they think they are 'tattling' on their neighbors. And the reasons for all those beliefs are often overblown but the effect of that breakdown in trust that is poisoning everything.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:06 pm

Didn't we call it in this thread a few months ago though? It's.puzzling but not surprising in any way. America.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:13 pm

Yeah, I've been watching the trend and it just keeps going up (increased refusal). I've professionally never experienced anything like it - every time I had to do contact tracing I had nothing but cooperation. Sure, sometimes it was too long between the disease and when we were notified, but people wanted to help - they didn't outright refuse to even speak with me.

It's extra difficult for me to process because I'm on the other side - I truly can't get into the headspace of what they're thinking and why they're acting this way. Don't get me wrong - I want to understand, I just don't know how.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:23 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:13 pm Yeah, I've been watching the trend and it just keeps going up (increased refusal). I've professionally never experienced anything like it - every time I had to do contact tracing I had nothing but cooperation. Sure, sometimes it was too long between the disease and when we were notified, but people wanted to help - they didn't outright refuse to even speak with me.

It's extra difficult for me to process because I'm on the other side - I truly can't get into the headspace of what they're thinking and why they're acting this way. Don't get me wrong - I want to understand, I just don't know how.

Does contact tracing really make much difference when the virus is endemic? It's like stomping on embers in a burning building.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:30 pm

Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:23 pmDoes contact tracing really make much difference when the virus is endemic? It's like stomping on embers in a burning building.

Right, at some point it is indeed useless to stop spread because the virus is everywhere. However, we started out a ~50% refusal here in NJ back in July and it's only been trending worse.

And while it might not be great for stopping spread, it does help us fill in information about *how* it's being spread. The current argument now is we don't have data to prove small gatherings are responsible. We're definitely speculating (and maybe incorrectly), but without cooperation we really have no idea what's happening. Are all the people getting sick being exposed at work? Are they going to bars? Are they gathering with family? Are they out shopping? Going to churches or other religious gatherings? We're flying blind and not surprisingly then, flailing around with policy and executive orders. Without the data we don't have the ability to enact scalpel-like decisions. Instead, all we have left it the giant, unrelenting hammer.