Octopus Overlords

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Now I guess he can spend his taxpayer-funded time traveling outside of FL and campaigning for someone else.

Oh, and now TFG has a double-digit lead over Haley in New Hampshire. Will she drop out after it's official or wait until she loses in her home state?

My guess is these A-Holes endorsing Orange Florida Man are hoping he croaks and they can pick up his base.

Solid point here.

It's amusing that they always "suspend" their campaigns rather than ending them. As if they might fire it back up at any time. I suppose that has something to do with keeping the money.

I just sent away for my mail-in ballots. For the primary, I ordered a Republican ballot in hopes of voting against trump. Guess that's even more moot now than it would have been otherwise -- Mass. being among the last states to primary, our two cents are pretty worthless to begin with. Well, it made even less sense to take a D ballot and coronate Biden.

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 7:00 pm It's amusing that they always "suspend" their campaigns rather than ending them. As if they might fire it back up at any time. I suppose that has something to do with keeping the money.

Yeah. I don't really know the details, but "suspending" keeps money available for future political projects in ways that "ending" does not.

For example, I believe Jeb Bush still has 2016 money in his campaign coffers. Who knows what he can do with it?

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 7:09 pm I just sent away for my mail-in ballots. For the primary, I ordered a Republican ballot in hopes of voting against trump. Guess that's even more moot now than it would have been otherwise -- Mass. being among the last states to primary, our two cents are pretty worthless to begin with. Well, it made even less sense to take a D ballot and coronate Biden.

We should have all been doing this. Every one of us. And by “us,” I mean every American who doesn’t want to live under King Trump.

Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 8:46 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 7:09 pm I just sent away for my mail-in ballots. For the primary, I ordered a Republican ballot in hopes of voting against trump. Guess that's even more moot now than it would have been otherwise -- Mass. being among the last states to primary, our two cents are pretty worthless to begin with. Well, it made even less sense to take a D ballot and coronate Biden.

We should have all been doing this. Every one of us. And by “us,” I mean every American who doesn’t want to live under King Trump.

A lot of (most?) states have closed primaries. But yeah, anybody who lives in an open primary state should vote strategically when there are competitive races. Sometimes that means playing on the other team.

NH is an open state. Dems and independents can vote Republican on Tuesday, and I wish they would. It could matter a lot if the idea spread to other open states.

MA used to make it inconvenient for us; independents were automatically enrolled in whichever party's ballot we chose, and we had to visit the town clerk to wash off that stain.

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:09 pm NH is an open state. Dems and independents can vote Republican on Tuesday.

This is not true.

Registered Democrats can’t participate in the New Hampshire GOP primary. Only Republicans and Independents can vote in the Republican contest.

NC is closed as well, and it did cross my mind to stay independent so I could vote in both primaries. But ultimately I felt that it was a fence-sitting position that I didn't *personally* believe in (I'm not casting any judgment on those who register that way).

There's still David Stuckenberg and Ryan Binkley.

Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:38 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:09 pm NH is an open state. Dems and independents can vote Republican on Tuesday.

This is not true.

Registered Democrats can’t participate in the New Hampshire GOP primary. Only Republicans and Independents can vote in the Republican contest.

I stand corrected.

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:09 pm

Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 8:46 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 7:09 pm I just sent away for my mail-in ballots. For the primary, I ordered a Republican ballot in hopes of voting against trump. Guess that's even more moot now than it would have been otherwise -- Mass. being among the last states to primary, our two cents are pretty worthless to begin with. Well, it made even less sense to take a D ballot and coronate Biden.

We should have all been doing this. Every one of us. And by “us,” I mean every American who doesn’t want to live under King Trump.

A lot of (most?) states have closed primaries. But yeah, anybody who lives in an open primary state should vote strategically when there are competitive races. Sometimes that means playing on the other team.

NH is an open state. Dems and independents can vote Republican on Tuesday, and I wish they would. It could matter a lot if the idea spread to other open states.

MA used to make it inconvenient for us; independents were automatically enrolled in whichever party's ballot we chose, and we had to visit the town clerk to wash off that stain.

Yes, but as soon as Trump was clearly running again (like 1/7) and even more once it was clear the Dem choice was Biden or Biden, Dems should have been switching their registrations to GOP in states without open primaries, just to try to keep Trump off the ballot.

Probably not feasible because not enough people give a shit. But it would have been nice.

He's (Biden) got problems here (Michigan) and that's not good. I can easily see us reverting to Trump because Biden isn't "good enough". It's hard to know what that means, really. Listening to Civil Rights speakers historically for the black communities and the reasons for a lack of involvement in the political process, I can't empathize, but I can understand how you can take stand on how bad "the better side" is by not standing with them because worse isn't that much worse. It's how I felt when I was a conservative voter who didn't vote for the GOP, even as I never had the personal or ethnic ties to desperation (which is why I can't actually empathize).

Again, I'm surprised at how much I actually like Biden and consider him successful. I don't support Israel in its current state and believe they are committing atrocities. I think that TFG will be worse for Palestine. I'm not sure what the right call is for Biden and he isn't doing enough but the alternative...

I still can't wrap my brain around the idea that "not good enough" means we should install a mentally impaired dictator with 91 felony counts instead. I'm hoping a lot of the complaining is just an airing of grievances and when the chips are down people will vote for the lesser of two evils.

They want someone else other than Biden or Trump. There is no other Democrat that can be better than Biden or Trump?

The Democrats also have the same problem as the Republicans which can't find anyone to replace Trump? Democrats can't find anyone that can replace Biden?

What if you think the difference is so little that you don't want to support mere very bad? This is where the "Biden isn't stopping Net in yahoo and is, in fact, enabling him" are coming from. I don't have a good answer for them and I can't begin to tell them how to prioritize even as I see a yuuge difference between candidates.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:51 am They want someone else other than Biden or Trump. There is no other Democrat that can be better than Biden or Trump?

Does Democrats also have the same problem as the Republicans which can't find anyone to replace Trump? Democrats can't find anyone that can replace Biden?

The Democratic party are willing to accept that Biden doesn't want to step down. I have a ballot with other names on it for the primary: Marianne Williamson and Dean Phillips. Me? I'd still like to see the likes of Merkley run, who is merely 67 at after not running for the previous 8 years. I'd get behind Buttigieg, even as I think our collective bigotry would keep him out of office. Not sure who else in the field attracts my attention.

I think younger people are also more idealist. If they think Biden is bad or evil, then they'll rather not voting for both Biden or Trump. They're not thinking about choosing the lesser evil, they just don't want to vote for evil.

Victoria Raverna wrote:The Democrats also have the same problem as the Republicans which can't find anyone to replace Trump? Democrats can't find anyone that can replace Biden?

Having lived in the United States all my life, I can tell you that neither party can ever find a candidate that everyone is happy with. And most of the time they choose the one that almost nobody is happy with.

I wish it was as easy as "just finding someone different that we all like" but American politics doesn't work that way. The game is rigged from the outset.

A big part of the problem is that we are stuck with an archaic constitutional system that doesn't give sufficient avenues for people to make their specific beliefs felt. A two-party system with a plurality winning condition means that you're basically stuck voting for whomever your party's nominee is, because even not voting or voting third party functionally only benefits the major party candidate farthest from your beliefs. On top of that, if you're left wing the unrepresentative structure of the Senate (empowering more conservative rural voters) combined with that Senate's role in confirming judges and the filibuster, plus the multiple fail points for legislation, means that progressive legislation, even when supported by a Democratic president, is exceptionally hard to pass and easy to be struck down by conservative judges.

Meaning that the Democratic Party is constantly in the position of telling different otherwise sympathetic political factions to suck it up and support the nominee, in exchange for uncertain and slow gains in their political priorities.

Not that I'm not frustrated with "I won't vote for the lesser of two evils!" foolish grandstanding, especially in the age of Trump, but I do have some sympathy. What people who are frustrated with Biden, and progressives frustrated with the mainstream Democratic Party in general, should do is channel that energy into reforming our political system. But it's hard to channel political energy into procedural reforms.

But wait people! Nikki Haley gets 100% of the vote in Dixville Notch's "first in the nation" primary! All six votes!

Here comes the Nikki-mentum!

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:05 am Not that I'm not frustrated with "I won't vote for the lesser of two evils!" foolish grandstanding, especially in the age of Trump, but I do have some sympathy. What people who are frustrated with Biden, and progressives frustrated with the mainstream Democratic Party in general, should do is channel that energy into reforming our political system. But it's hard to channel political energy into procedural reforms.

Amen.

On a tangential note that's neither here nor there but I feel demonstrates how badly out-of-whack this specific election cycle is. Here's a random stat: Bill Clinton was inaugurated 31 years ago.

Clinton is younger than both Biden and Trump. It is absolutely insane that the next President will be inaugurated at a minimum age of 78.5.

Historically, the median age at inauguration is 55 years old. The youngest was 42, and the oldest before Trump was Reagan at 69. Then Trump at 70, then Biden at 78. The next will be either 78 or 82 (!).

Say, is Brezhnev available to serve?

It's particularly interesting in that the US traditionally is not known for having a culture of respect for the elderly.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:11 am I still can't wrap my brain around the idea that "not good enough" means we should install a mentally impaired dictator with 91 felony counts instead. I'm hoping a lot of the complaining is just an airing of grievances and when the chips are down people will vote for the lesser of two evils.

Yeah, I'm with you here.

It's not about Biden, it's about the alternative. This isn't "Douche" vs "Shit Sandwich". This is nightmare vs flawed.

Just another way to look at it to put it in perspective. If we instead elected someone who was just the median age for a President--not even one that's particularly young--they could serve two terms, then spend 15 years in retirement and *still* be younger than Trump or Biden.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:51 am They want someone else other than Biden or Trump. There is no other Democrat that can be better than Biden or Trump?

The Democrats also have the same problem as the Republicans which can't find anyone to replace Trump? Democrats can't find anyone that can replace Biden?

It would be nice if a sitting president and his/her party decided to not run again in a Presidential election - and to try and find a "better candidate", but it's not realistic to ever think they would do that. I'm sure you can imagine a number of reasons why it doesn't happen.

Has it ever happened before?

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:01 pm Just another way to look at it to put it in perspective. If we instead elected someone who was just the median age for a President--not even one that's particularly young--they could serve two terms, then spend 15 years in retirement and *still* be younger than Trump or Biden.

Obama comes to mind.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:22 am The youngest was 46

Theodore Roosevelt was 42.

Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:04 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:01 pm Just another way to look at it to put it in perspective. If we instead elected someone who was just the median age for a President--not even one that's particularly young--they could serve two terms, then spend 15 years in retirement and *still* be younger than Trump or Biden.

Obama comes to mind.

Yeah, it's funny because even Obama was older than Clinton was when he was inaugurated! JFK and Teddy take the cake for youngest at inauguration (and even they were past the minimum age by more than half a decade).

Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:07 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:22 am The youngest was 46

Theodore Roosevelt was 42.

Yeah, I just caught my error a minute ago--whups.

Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:02 pm

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:51 am They want someone else other than Biden or Trump. There is no other Democrat that can be better than Biden or Trump?

The Democrats also have the same problem as the Republicans which can't find anyone to replace Trump? Democrats can't find anyone that can replace Biden?

It would be nice if a sitting president and his/her party decided to not run again in a Presidential election - and to try and find a "better candidate", but it's not realistic to ever think they would do that. I'm sure you can imagine a number of reasons why it doesn't happen.

Has it ever happened before?

Lyndon Johnson declined to run in 1968. Obviously that was in the midst of the political turmoil of the Vietnam War. I suspect there was also at least one 19th century president who declined to run for reelection, though I'm not sure (and that's a vastly different political era).

I genuinely cannot believe I was so naive to think that after Obama we'd never elect someone in their 70s ever again. I didn't fully appreciate the racial lightning rod that was Trump and that apparently the only way to defeat him was with a similarly aged candidate.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but the next candidate (2028) has to be a young person, right? Or are we assuming Trump will just rule from his bed, kept alive with tubes and machines and tweeting out his demands at 4am?

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:23 pm I genuinely cannot believe I was so naive to think that after Obama we'd never elect someone in their 70s ever again. I didn't fully appreciate the racial lightning rod that was Trump and that apparently the only way to defeat him was with a similarly aged candidate.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but the next candidate (2028) has to be a young person, right? Or are we assuming Trump will just rule from his bed, kept alive with tubes and machines and tweeting out his demands at 4am?

If Trump wins in 2024, I think it's more likely than not that he runs for a third term in 2028 (constitution be damned) and that he's the Republican nominee (because no one stops him).

Reasonable chance that Buttigieg at least runs in 2028, either way. Guessing he'd be an underdog, but would have a shot.

Hamilton told me that Washington declined to run for another term. The show does have some inaccuracies though and I am not motivated to check.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:12 pm

If Trump wins in 2024, I think it's more likely than not that he runs for a third term in 2028 (constitution be damned) and that he's the Republican nominee (because no one stops him).

If his current gambit pays off (being legally shielded) but he's not re-elected, I'm guessing he's going to run for President in perpetuity - because clearly we can't take any legal action against someone that is running for President without it looking political.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:23 pm I genuinely cannot believe I was so naive to think that after Obama we'd never elect someone in their 70s ever again. I didn't fully appreciate the racial lightning rod that was Trump and that apparently the only way to defeat him was with a similarly aged candidate.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but the next candidate (2028) has to be a young person, right? Or are we assuming Trump will just rule from his bed, kept alive with tubes and machines and tweeting out his demands at 4am?

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:26 pm

If the tweeter thinks that makes the panel dude an insignificant Michigan Arab/Muslim minority with this opinion and discredits his concern, then I guess I don't know what to say. Hillary Clinton dismissal chapter 2, maybe? Again, I don't have a solution but dismissal is definitely not it.