Octopus Overlords

If The Donald does start issuing pardons to those not complying with a subpoena from the Mueller investigation I don't think it's inaccurate to say that we are venturing into a banana republic government or as the Founding Fathers would call it, "tyranny". Of course the check on that possibility would be impeachment and removal. That would depend on the members of Congress having the moral courage to bring about such proceedings and act as a check on the President's misuse of power. In short, we are truly fucked.

$iljanus wrote:If The Donald does start issuing pardons to those not complying with a subpoena from the Mueller investigation I don't think it's inaccurate to say that we are venturing into a banana republic government or as the Founding Fathers would call it, "tyranny". Of course the check on that possibility would be impeachment and removal. That would depend on the members of Congress having the moral courage to bring about such proceedings and act as a check on the President's misuse of power. In short, we are truly fucked.

We are well past the line - word is leaking out that the DOJ wasn't involved with the pardon. Trump also issued the transgender ban without DOD involvement. That is autocratic behavior that is far beyond our traditions. The POTUS has always lead by informed decision except in times of crisis. These were not crisis decisions. People spent years weighing Arpaio's behavior and the transgender ban. Those efforts deserved due consideration before undoing them. They were done at the stroke of a pen using a crisis as a distraction. We are in huge, huge trouble.

$iljanus wrote:From various fake news articles analyzing the pardon one wonders what will stop The Donald from pardoning other people who may face contempt of court charges in the future. Such as, folks that won't cooperate with the Mueller investigation...?

The hope is that those being investigated by Mueller are being offered leniency in exchange for cooperation, and that they understand that they can count on a pardon only if it comes at no cost to Trump himself.

I think we're going to start hearing about Trump's misuse of the pardon power to protect himself could be understood as obstruction of justice. So a Manafort has to gamble that, if he resists Mueller to help Trump, Trump will pardon him even though it exposes Trump himself to further charges.

I doubt many who know Trump would take that bet.

tgb wrote:Where are those 2nd amendment people when you really need them?

Lots of atypical customers in the gun shops and ranges these days.

The problem is that the majority of pro 2A folks have that cognitive disconnect born of being single issue voters for so long that they feel obligated to support Trump. And likewise for party line Democrats/liberals, they can't imagine being pro 2a because that would signal support for Trump.

As somebody in the flood zone of Harvey, Trump's yesterday adventures sicken me. People may be dying and for him it's just an opportunity to whip out unpopular shit under cover while acting like he gives a fuck about fema.

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I don't see what the issue is about Arpaio.

Dog Day Afternoon

A Phony Murder Plot Against Joe Arpaio Winds Up Costing Taxpayers $1.1 Million

Victims Wonder Why Arpaio Let Sex-Abuse Cases Languish

Joe Arpaio Loses: New Times Co-Founders Win $3.75 Million Settlement for 2007 False Arrests

Joe Arpaio's Investigating Federal Judge G. Murray Snow, DOJ, Sources Say, and Using a Seattle Scammer To Do It

The pardon was needed to set up Arpaio becoming head of Border Patrol in the future......

People waiting on Mueller to free us from this nightmare have to face the Strong likelihood that Trump will use every power in his authority to avoid consequences for him and his associates. Who's going to stop him? He knows the GOP congress is too chickenshit to act, at least as long as they fear his control of the base.

Captain Caveman wrote:People waiting on Mueller to free us from this nightmare have to face the Strong likelihood that Trump will use every power in his authority to avoid consequences for him and his associates. Who's going to stop him? He knows the GOP congress is too chickenshit to act, at least as long as they fear his control of the base.

However, that will increase the outrage over obstruction of justice and build momentum towards more curtailing of Trump's abuses of power.

Pyperkub wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:People waiting on Mueller to free us from this nightmare have to face the Strong likelihood that Trump will use every power in his authority to avoid consequences for him and his associates. Who's going to stop him? He knows the GOP congress is too chickenshit to act, at least as long as they fear his control of the base.

However, that will increase the outrage over obstruction of justice and build momentum towards more curtailing of Trump's abuses of power.

I love the positivism but he just flipped off almost every major stakeholder yesterday. He just told everyone he will do what he wants. Outrage or not - when all things are considered how is anyone going to restrain him? Here is a thought exercise. Next year...maybe...the House flips. And then there will be investigations and censures galore but even then nothing they do will be able to stop him.

This pardon is consistent with Trump's unwillingness to denounce white supremacists and nazi wannabes. I don't believe ALL of Trump's supporters are such people, I know people who voted for him only because they detested Hilary far more. However, his deliberate choices to cater to them like this proves beyond any doubt in my mind that he knows his support is in large part coming from such people. He's throwing them all the bones he can, to keep them happy enough that he retains their support. That's why he's making these seemingly ill advised decisions. The decisions are only ill advised if you are not looking to those kinds of people for support.

So he's going to keep doing stuff like this and 'normal' Republicans may or may not like it but they can't do anything about it. That's a large bloc of xenophobic/homophobic/sexist/racist people(aka deplorables) out there and they won't look kindly on anyone who attacks their boy. And that's giving normal Republicans enough credit to think they aren't secretly cheering him on because he's doing and saying things they always wished they could get away with.

I don't think he's calculating at all. He's not acting the way he does to keep their support; they support him because he acts the way he does.

Trump didn't hold his nose and pardon Arpaio. He pardoned Arpaio because Arpaio joined him in the Birther nonsense as early as 2011 and has been a vocal ally ever since.

In TrumpWorld, you help your friends and hurt your enemies. It's only just begun.

Holman wrote:
In TrumpWorld, you help your friends and hurt your enemies..

I was going to "morton" this and change 'friends' to 'those loyal to you' but I realize that your statement is more correct. Friends, in TrumpWorld have an equal amount of power and are to be respected; those pledging loyalty do so as a sign of weakness, are subservient, and are to be disposed of once no longer advantageous.

And, then, there are those currently above you in the power structure who you either plot to bring down or ingratiate yourself to, depending on their perception of you...

Or maybe "friends" means "those who help Trump."

The deplorables help Trump by giving him the adulation his narcissism craves. They make him a star.

For a so-called President with such an incredibly low approval rating, why are Republicans so afraid of pissing off his base? With a historical low 'base', isn't cutting ties and distancing oneself the smart move? A move to the middle-right seems prudent.

Holman wrote:Or maybe "friends" means "those who help Trump."

The deplorables help Trump by giving him the adulation his narcissism craves. They make him a star.

Again, I think any support from Trump is temporary and self-serving for the reason you describe. Loyalty and 'help me now' can all be thrown out the window with less thought given than a coal miner's job.

Jolor wrote:For a so-called President with such an incredibly low approval rating, why are Republicans so afraid of pissing off his base? With a historical low 'base', isn't cutting ties and distancing oneself the smart move? A move to the middle-right seems prudent.

Because they're cowards. They cling to power and know that there is risk being the first to break rank. Once/if it happens it will be a landslide (of cowardly turds) but it is going to take a low risk, high reward proposition. They obviously don't see it that way I now.

Also, maybe Putin has their tapes too.

But a clean break isn't really possible. A solid chunk of the Republican base is energized by Trump's willingness to validate their bigotry and treat their stupidity like tough-minded wisdom. It will be a long time before those voters are willing to go for a Kasich or a Romney again.

For the GOP to divorce Trump would mean cutting off its own legs. It would doom the party.

Is the time ripe for a legitimate 3rd party? Not one that is "more right" or "more left" but one that plays it more up the middle? Is such a thing possible in The States?

I suppose the concern would be abandoning the traditional right and enabling + legitimizing the far/alt right.

The 34% of Americans who think Trump is doing a swell job include 76% of Republicans (as of a few weeks ago), and so the party is still in their thrall. Apparently 76% of Republicans are irredeemable dickheads.

I've been wondering lately what the trend has been in the number of declared Republicans is. The stat is always quoted as "74% of Republicans", but if the number of Republicans is going down in response to Trump, then the stat really means "74% of a shrinking party increasingly composed of core Trump fans." I've seen multiple people on the two boards I visit say something along the lines of "I've been a Republican most of my life, but I no longer consider myself one, and will probably never vote for one again." If the party has become so toxic that it's driving membership down, then the question of what percentage of it supports Trump is less interesting than how fast the party's shrinking.

The Washington Post reported last night that Trump asked Sessions to drop the Arpaio prosecution but was advised against it. This was a complete abuse of power from beginning to end.

Jolor wrote:For a so-called President with such an incredibly low approval rating, why are Republicans so afraid of pissing off his base? With a historical low 'base', isn't cutting ties and distancing oneself the smart move? A move to the middle-right seems prudent.

I think at this point it's admitting all those they said about him were wrong.

Also the republicans are very clearly showing breaks with Trump and are doing their best to protect the party going into 2020. There is no guarantee he will end up the nominee.


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Chaz wrote:I've been wondering lately what the trend has been in the number of declared Republicans is. The stat is always quoted as "74% of Republicans", but if the number of Republicans is going down in response to Trump, then the stat really means "74% of a shrinking party increasingly composed of core Trump fans." I've seen multiple people on the two boards I visit say something along the lines of "I've been a Republican most of my life, but I no longer consider myself one, and will probably never vote for one again." If the party has become so toxic that it's driving membership down, then the question of what percentage of it supports Trump is less interesting than how fast the party's shrinking.

Gallup suggests this is not the case. Instinctively I would have the same wonder and feeling as you, but...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

Chaz wrote:I've been wondering lately what the trend has been in the number of declared Republicans is. The stat is always quoted as "74% of Republicans", but if the number of Republicans is going down in response to Trump, then the stat really means "74% of a shrinking party increasingly composed of core Trump fans." I've seen multiple people on the two boards I visit say something along the lines of "I've been a Republican most of my life, but I no longer consider myself one, and will probably never vote for one again." If the party has become so toxic that it's driving membership down, then the question of what percentage of it supports Trump is less interesting than how fast the party's shrinking.

Most people don't declare or change a party affiliation until a major election, so if that is happening it won't show up in stats until 2018. We have at least a couple of recovering Republicans in this very forum. I doubt that they've made that official. More likely they are driving Trump's steadily slipping popularity among (still) registered Republicans.

LM's Gallup link asks "Do you consider yourself...?" rather than reporting actual party registration, but those numbers probably dovetail pretty well.

There is also a pie slice of reformist Republicans who will always consider themselves as members of that party, but may not support its current direction - or its current (well, future) candidates, either by crossing lines, protest votes, or simply sitting votes out.

They want nothing to do with Trump or the party as it is, but if you ask them their affiliation, they'll say Republican, because they haven't given up on the party's more reasonable ideals.

For what it's worth I'm still a registered Republican, but wouldn't identify as such if asked. I suspect that while many Republicans have stopped feeling Republican, many deplorable Trump voters that weren't Republican now consider themselves so.

Pretty amazing to watch the Secretary of State distance himself from the president in this clip:

[Tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/goldengatebl ... 7664846848[/Tweet]

Edit: damn it - I can't figure out how to imbed Tweets to work with Tapatalk.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Pretty amazing to watch the Secretary of State distance himself from the president in this clip:

[Tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/goldengatebl ... 7664846848[/Tweet]

Edit: damn it - I can't figure out how to imbed Tweets to work with Tapatalk.

I think it's the "mobile" part of the url.

That is some real courage there. Let's see how long he lasts.

Kraken wrote:The 34% of Americans who think Trump is doing a swell job include 76% of Republicans (as of a few weeks ago), and so the party is still in their thrall. Apparently 76% of Republicans are irredeemable dickheads.

That 36% of Americans look at the current state of things and smile is the best argument so far that maybe we just aren't compatible as a county any more.

gbasden wrote:That 36% of Americans look at the current state of things and smile is the best argument so far that maybe we just aren't compatible as a county any more.

When your only source of truth in the world is pro-Trump media, it's very easy to think things are peaches and cream.

gbasden wrote:

Kraken wrote:The 34% of Americans who think Trump is doing a swell job include 76% of Republicans (as of a few weeks ago), and so the party is still in their thrall. Apparently 76% of Republicans are irredeemable dickheads.

That 36% of Americans look at the current state of things and smile is the best argument so far that maybe we just aren't compatible as a county any more.

A significant chunk of them don't even think things are good. They just think it's good that you think they're not.

So after working his way through (and dismantling) the flood risk rules signed by president Obama, now President Trump is apparently going to roll back the restrictions Obama placed on military gear being purchased by the police. He is absolutely going down a giant list of everything Obama did and undoing it all. Unreal.

Smoove_B wrote:So after working his way through (and dismantling) the flood risk rules signed by president Obama, now President Trump is apparently going to roll back the restrictions Obama placed on military gear being purchased by the police. He is absolutely going down a giant list of everything Obama did and undoing it all. Unreal.

That's really the main goal of his presidency: thwart Obama.

Chaz wrote:

Smoove_B wrote:So after working his way through (and dismantling) the flood risk rules signed by president Obama, now President Trump is apparently going to roll back the restrictions Obama placed on military gear being purchased by the police. He is absolutely going down a giant list of everything Obama did and undoing it all. Unreal.

That's really the main goal of his presidency: thwart Obama.

When one of our males sniffs where another marked, he always covers it with his own scent. It's not thwarting Obama as much as it is just pissing on everything he ever touched.

It always comes back to the pee tape.

Boy I hope this is taken with truck load of salt...

http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/trump-cyb ... rs-resign/

A quarter of the members of the National Infrastructure Advisory Council, whose purview includes national cybersecurity, have resigned. In a group resignation letter, they cited both specific shortfalls in the administration’s approach to cybersecurity, and broader concerns that Trump and his administration have undermined the “moral infrastructure” of the U.S.

http://www.nextgov.com/media/gbc/docs/p ... 417jm1.pdf