Octopus Overlords

It's hard to tell with him. Rand Paul is sort of an n=1 experiment about what happens if you have a US Senator who grew up breathing the pure libertarian hot air that his father tried to sell for decades.

For me, he aligns a lot with what I think about the outcome of libertarianism. Which IMO is a completely unrealistic world view. The outcome ends up being an adherence to an amoral me first mentality that poisons cooperation. Ask his fellow Senators or neighbor about that! It sometimes aligns with a workable world view on certain issues but I reckon most times he is hopelessly out of step with everything.

You think his perfectly timed, absurd Trump defenses are due to his libertarian ideals? That’s generous.

Someone out there, the Neighbor Signal shines over a city in Kentucky. Will our hero respond?

Carpet_pissr wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:38 am You think his perfectly timed, absurd Trump defenses are due to his libertarian ideals? That’s generous.

No I think he maps this obsequiousness to his absurd model about how he thinks the world should work. I mean who the heck else would be like...finally my chance to attack the Espionage Act!

And now the classified documents that he didn’t have then he did have but were planted but were declassified because he wished it but were placed there by an overzealous moving company (I’m sure I forgot one) now should be given back to him because they were actually his personal documents protected by attorney/client privilege. Which also applies to government documents, somehow.

I’m not gonna try to untangle the logic on this one, since the story will change again in an hour anyways.

"By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

There's no way he wrote that himself.

Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:00 pm There's no way he wrote that himself.

Certainly not! It said he "respectfully" requested them back.

$iljanus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:47 pm "By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

Keep in mind a 'Truth' is to Truth Social as a Tweet is to Twitter. Those cult-y assholes build a cult-y social network. And I agree there is zero chance he wrote that.

malchior wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:05 pm

$iljanus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:47 pm "By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

Keep in mind a 'Truth' is to Truth Social as a Tweet is to Twitter.

It is, and it isn't. I agree that they'd like it to be that way, but it's just an incredibly stupid idea. Using the word truth that way is just embarrassing, even before taking into account the specific environment in which it's being used.

$iljanus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:47 pm "By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

That had big Michael Scott “I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY” vibes to it.

Incoherent garbage, but SOUNDS powerful, or patriotic, very ‘Founders’. Therefore his maggots will eat it up.

Probably tear up when they read it.

malchior wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:05 pm

$iljanus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:47 pm "By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

Keep in mind a 'Truth' is to Truth Social as a Tweet is to Twitter. Those cult-y assholes build a cult-y social network. And I agree there is zero chance he wrote that.

They even use "truth" as a verb (parallel to "tweet"), and they "re-truth" posts they like, etc.

Holman wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:41 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:05 pm

$iljanus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:47 pm "By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

Keep in mind a 'Truth' is to Truth Social as a Tweet is to Twitter. Those cult-y assholes build a cult-y social network. And I agree there is zero chance he wrote that.

They even use "truth" as a verb (parallel to "tweet"), and they "re-truth" posts they like, etc.

Ah, I did not realize that. Unsure if that’s worse or better, geez.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:33 pm

Holman wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:41 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:05 pm

$iljanus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:47 pm "By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

Keep in mind a 'Truth' is to Truth Social as a Tweet is to Twitter. Those cult-y assholes build a cult-y social network. And I agree there is zero chance he wrote that.

They even use "truth" as a verb (parallel to "tweet"), and they "re-truth" posts they like, etc.

Ah, I did not realize that. Unsure if that’s worse or better, geez.

Worse. Definitely worse.

Orwell would be rolling over.

Kurth wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:17 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:33 pm

Holman wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:41 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:05 pm

$iljanus wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:47 pm "By copy of this TRUTH..." Who the fuck writes like this? Next thing you know the DOJ will be getting the Kriminal Sopena from the Desk of the Honorable Donald J Trump.

Keep in mind a 'Truth' is to Truth Social as a Tweet is to Twitter. Those cult-y assholes build a cult-y social network. And I agree there is zero chance he wrote that.

They even use "truth" as a verb (parallel to "tweet"), and they "re-truth" posts they like, etc.

Ah, I did not realize that. Unsure if that’s worse or better, geez.

Worse. Definitely worse.

Orwell would be rolling over.

I think he spun out when "alternate facts" hit the lexicon.

Bragg really looks corrupt and compromised.

The government’s argument to protect 6(e) materials confirms federal grand jury activity related to the Mar-a-Lago search. That’s new.

“the affidavit contains, among other critically important and detailed investigative facts: highly sensitive information about witnesses, including witnesses interviewed by the government; specific investigative techniques;

"and information required by law to be kept under seal pursuant to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 6(e).”

I find it hilarious that Trump thinks he can dictate what gets released about an investigation on himself. Good luck with that buddy.

I mean maybe he can? The system is can't deal with the powerful as a baseline. And for someone like him? He actually has people actually debating if it was the right decision to recover nuclear weapons secrets from his resort which is somewhat open to the public. We're not a serious nation anymore by any measure.

Maybe I'm just sensitive to all this because it's Trump and it's been 6+ goddamn years, but it *feels* like at some point we've made politicians untouchable. Namely, their crimes have to be obvious and egregious enough for swift action to be taken, but even there apparently there is some wiggle room. Once you reach a certain level (seemingly federal), there doesn't seem to be much pressure (?) to hold them accountable, I'm guessing for fear of how it would look?

Governor Cuomo's resignation after weeks of pressure related to sexual harassment allegations is about the biggest recent state-level example I can think of. By all accounts what we know of Matt Gaetz he's decidedly much, much worse and yet...he's still serving as a House member and on various federal committees. It's been over 2 years since the original allegations were made against him. I get that his co-conspirator is cooperating and providing information, but 2+ years???

Regardless, I want to believe this will all amount to something, but from a political standpoint, I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario - even if he was selling nuclear or spy-related secrets - where he's perp-walked into a court room and tossed in a cell. To be clear, he absolutely should be, I just imagine if that happens, there will be a subset of lunatics that are going to get nuttier.

The only other one I can think of is Jeff Fortenberry.

stessier wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:08 am The only other one I can think of is Jeff Fortenberry.

We also had Chris Collins and Duncan Hunter a few years back but they were financial crimes. Collins gave his son a tip on a failed pharma trial. Duncan Hunter used campaign funds for trips to Hawaii amongst other locations.

malchior wrote:

stessier wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:08 am The only other one I can think of is Jeff Fortenberry.

We also had Chris Collins and Duncan Hunter a few years back but they were financial crimes. Collins gave his son a tip on a failed pharma trial. Duncan Hunter used campaign funds for trips to Hawaii amongst other locations.

You forgot steam games!

He's probably banned from CoD MP.

Octavious wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:02 am I find it hilarious that Trump thinks he can dictate what gets released about an investigation on himself. Good luck with that buddy.

Please don’t wish him luck. Florida Man has seemingly infinite strings he can pull.

Seen elsewhere on the interwebs today.

I think Occam’s Razor applies here: Trump is an exceedingly lazy man who doesn’t care about laws, rules, regulations, etc. He probably had those documents shipped to Mar-a-Lago so he could read them there, was supposed to turn them over to the National Archives after he left office, when the National Archives alerted DOJ and the FBI that the documents were still at Mar-a-Lago they asked him to turn them over and he didn’t, and then when he didn’t they just went and took them back.

It’s probably significant, classified material … but he hasn’t returned it in the same way he wouldn’t have returned a Blockbuster VHS of Bloodsport in 1993. He just can’t be bothered to care to do it.

I do honestly think that's likely an explanation as any other. Still doesn't excuse him or let him off the hook (especially if the documents were concerning national security), but it does make sense as to why he never bothered until now. There wasn't a benefit before, but now he can use it to whip up the base even further and/or grift from the rubes.

So now it matters.

Eh...his lawyers lied about them having the materials and the government had requested the return of the materials according to accounts several times. All they had to do was agree and it would have happened. This wasn't about him being too lazy to return things.

Edit: For me the likeliest explanation comes down to the idea that Trump is a child man with a bottomless need for affirmation. He wanted to keep that stuff because it all belonged to him and no one can take it away. He is incapable of normal thought about the boundaries and responsibilities of public service or the parameters of the law.

Also the concept that he was going to read any of it, as mentioned in Skiny's quote, is insane.

coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:30 pm Also the concept that he was going to read any of it, as mentioned in Skiny's quote, is insane.

But don't forget that he is 100% devoted to monetizing *everything*, especially if he has exclusive access to it.

And Trump doesn't need to read anything. He has Jared for that.

Holman wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:34 pm

coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:30 pm Also the concept that he was going to read any of it, as mentioned in Skiny's quote, is insane.

But don't forget that he is 100% devoted to monetizing *everything*, especially if he has exclusive access to it.

And Trump doesn't need to read anything. He has Jared for that.

Yeah, this is the thing. I find it plausible that the stuff wound up at Mar-A-Lago because he was there and people who worked for him needed it there, and that Trump couldn't be bothered to return it. However, if there's stuff in there that was valuable to people (foreign governments or otherwise) obviously he's going to try to monetize that.

Im sure he does. Fucktard he is.

El Guapo wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:53 am

Octavious wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:38 am

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:35 am

Octavious wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:33 am He can just wait out a couple of years and hope to get pardoned by Trump.

Not unless Trump gets elected Governor of NY. Which really seems like a stretch now.

Oh that's a solid point. He's got Rudy's kid for that then.

Well, it wouldn't be crazy for Weisselberg to plan around Trump possibly becoming president again in 2025. It probably makes sense for him to fight these charges (and try to delay things as much as humanly possible). If the charges continue to stick and he either gets convicted or looks like he's going to get convicted, he can assess the political situation then and whether a Trump restoration seems likely, and if not can always flip at that point.

It seems the news on Weisselberg earlier this week was a bit off base. He pled guilty to all 15 counts on the indictment, has to testify against the Trump Org, and has to pay back the taxes, penalties, and fees. He'll also spend about 100 days in prison.

stessier wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:10 pm

El Guapo wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:53 am

Octavious wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:38 am

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:35 am

Octavious wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:33 am He can just wait out a couple of years and hope to get pardoned by Trump.

Not unless Trump gets elected Governor of NY. Which really seems like a stretch now.

Oh that's a solid point. He's got Rudy's kid for that then.

Well, it wouldn't be crazy for Weisselberg to plan around Trump possibly becoming president again in 2025. It probably makes sense for him to fight these charges (and try to delay things as much as humanly possible). If the charges continue to stick and he either gets convicted or looks like he's going to get convicted, he can assess the political situation then and whether a Trump restoration seems likely, and if not can always flip at that point.

It seems the news on Weisselberg earlier this week was a bit off base. He pled guilty to all 15 counts on the indictment, has to testify against the Trump Org, and has to pay back the taxes, penalties, and fees. He'll also spend about 100 days in prison.

The without cooperation deal that was leaked would have been extremely shady. A lot of folks still think the deal of 5 months for 15 felonies + only testifying against Trump Org is merely downgraded to shady. But the Manhattan DA has a history of soft-peddling or outright avoiding charges against the powerful (including the Vance interaction w/ Ivanka and Jared).

Edit: Some folks are confused how SDNY isn't involved since this scheme involves federal taxes as well. Maybe they are and we don't know it yet.

Why does the world give into his nonsense? Now they are making them release some more information. Seriously no fuck off. You don't get to demand how to be investigated.

Octavious wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:15 pm Why does the world give into his nonsense? Now they are making them release some more information. Seriously no fuck off. You don't get to demand how to be investigated.

From what I read it sounds like the judge in this case is under immense pressure. He had his picture photoshopped onto Jeffrey Epstein and run on Tucker Carlson's show (when Kilmeade was guest hosting). I would not be shocked to hear he has a protective detail now.

Still it really looks like he made a fairly reasonable accommodation considering the politics here. The press (and obstensibly Trump) wanted the affadavit completely unmasked. The press wants the clicks and Trump wants to break the process. In any case, it could compromise the investigation and frankly the personnel involved. The latter considers the significant uptick in violence that the GOP is stoking and the increasingly irresponsible press is amplifying.

On the other hand, completely blocking the release would add credence to the idea that the government is overstepping. Again no thanks to the GOP/press for this level of bullshit. So he chose a middle course. He'd allow the DOJ to redact it and he'd approve what'd be released. Hopefully that'll be the right balance. Still this whole thing is bananas and this country is in the midst of another major political crisis.