The best of the city builders

[Kelric]

I've got to go with Caesar 3 myself, but some of that is the setting and the fact that it's really the first of these type of games that I played. I've owned Emperor, Pharaoh and Zeus almost since they came out and haven't put much time into any of them and none into Zeus. I really need to fix that one of these days.

Edit - There should be a poll option for Other (Please Specify) but I've tried twice to include it and it hasn't shown up. Just post your answer if it isn't one of the listed games.

[Lee]

Umm Sim City 4. I always thought Sim City was the king of the builders myself.

The Caesar line of games were fun, but I hated the walker thing, it was silly and annoying trying to make cities so they didn't have choices. That isn't the way cities are built.

[Kelric]

Umm Sim City 4. I always thought Sim City was the king of the builders myself.

The Caesar line of games were fun, but I hated the walker thing, it was silly and annoying trying to make cities so they didn't have choices. That isn't the way cities are built.

I haven't played any of the Sim Cities since Sim City 2000 way back on the Mac we had twelve years ago. Didn't even think to count them.

[baron calamity]

Sim City 2000>*

[Jeff V]

Without SimCity, this poll is broken.

[Scanner]

Dungeon Keeper II

[Kelric]

Dungeon Keeper II

Also a good game.

[DireAussie]

Without SimCity, this poll is broken.

Sim City would win in any vote like this, so consider it a vote of the underdogs. I've never played any of the other games listed anyway and I'd say I'm not the only one.

[Azhure]

I've played and enjoyed all the games listed but for me the stand out was always Pharaoh. In the Impressions series, Caesar3 was fun but it lacked the refinement and control that Pharaoh had, and the ones in the series after that Zeus and Emperor were slightly dumbed down which meant after Pharaoh they never could hold my interest in the same way.

[Kraken]

Tropico 2 got my vote, for having the most complex model with the best feedback. Its bottom-up economy was brilliantly simple (your pirates and rich captives spend their money, which comes from raids, in your businesses). The music was noteworthy, except that there wasn't enough of it. Mostly, the reinforcing dynamic between your city and your ships worked really well -- the biggest flaw in citybuilders is usually lack of a purpose for your city. And best of all: pirates and wenches, Arrrrr! Its drawbacks: the RPG aspects felt incomplete, the limited victory conditions led to a repetitious campaign, and it could've used a little bit of event scripting to shake things up. Its grasp didn't quite equal its ambitious reach.

Of the Impressions games, Pharaoh was the deepest and most historical, and sold the best, although I ultimately found it slow-paced and repetitious. Zeus was without question the best designed and implemented, but players disliked its non-realistic graphics, its almost self-parodying humor, and (as Azhure mentioned) its streamlined building model. It was a commercial flop because the simplification was seen as dumbing-down by the series' fans, yet it failed to draw new players into a series with a reputation for being hard -- it was too easy for the grognards and too hard for the mainstream. Caesar III, the first of the bunch, was beloved mainly by Roman history buffs and players who enjoy wrestling with a difficult game model. It might have been the best-looking of the bunch.

I'd consider CotN, like C3, to be a prototype.

[Dogstar]

Odd question, but since it involves city-building... has anyone ever came across any post-apocalypse city-builders? I always thought that could be a fun game, having to scavenge for food and medicine, clear rubble, deal with disease/sanitation, etc.

[Butterknife]

Zeus got my vote. My favorite of all, there were actual goals and your cities carried over through multiple missions.

Only game I own that I played all the way through twice.

[Kelric]

Odd question, but since it involves city-building... has anyone ever came across any post-apocalypse city-builders? I always thought that could be a fun game, having to scavenge for food and medicine, clear rubble, deal with disease/sanitation, etc.

Never heard of any but that definitely could be a fun game.

[Butterknife]

Odd question, but since it involves city-building... has anyone ever came across any post-apocalypse city-builders? I always thought that could be a fun game, having to scavenge for food and medicine, clear rubble, deal with disease/sanitation, etc.

Never heard of any but that definitely could be a fun game.

Yeah, that's an awesome game idea. Not necessarily building a city, but rebuilding one -- could be different enough to be fun.

[Kraken]

I'd play that post-apocalyptic one. I liked Afterlife, too. Anyone remember that one?

[Scanner]

Odd question, but since it involves city-building... has anyone ever came across any post-apocalypse city-builders? I always thought that could be a fun game, having to scavenge for food and medicine, clear rubble, deal with disease/sanitation, etc.

If there isn't one, you could approximate it by loading a scenario in SimCity4 and then queuing up some disasters ...

[Kelric]

I'd play that post-apocalyptic one. I liked Afterlife, too. Anyone remember that one?

I think I remember Afterlife. Older game, bad graphics, people died and you got their souls. Something like that, correct? Or am I thinking of a different game?

[Yankeeman84]

Probably, IMO, Tropico 2

[JonathanStrange]

Pox-Eclipse?

I'd definitely be interested in a city rebuilder where after the pox-eclipse we reclaim an irradiated city of mutants, renegades, and artifacts. It could be cool. I'd call it "Earth 2150" or "Starman's Son" or "Empire of the Atom."

Children of the Nile is my current fav city builder with Caesar III being a fond memory.

[Dogstar]

I think some problems with it is that it would need to be more than a simple city-rebuilder. You'd need some RPG-type elements because you'd have to get individuals with certain types of knowledge so that your community could survive, let alone rebuild a city. For instance, how valuable would a doctor be? A power-plant worker? A civil engineer?

While this one wouldn't necessarily have to be true in the game, you'd probably be faced with people/groups that want what you have, especially with limited resources after any sort of apocalypse. Would you model some sort of combat/security into the game?

[Kelric]

I think some problems with it is that it would need to be more than a simple city-rebuilder. You'd need some RPG-type elements because you'd have to get individuals with certain types of knowledge so that your community could survive, let alone rebuild a city. For instance, how valuable would a doctor be? A power-plant worker? A civil engineer?

While this one wouldn't necessarily have to be true in the game, you'd probably be faced with people/groups that want what you have, especially with limited resources after any sort of apocalypse. Would you model some sort of combat/security into the game?

Send out 'expeditions' for a certain amount of food/ammo/gasoline costs with the specific goals to find a doctor. Send out another group looking for a power-plant worker. Sometimes they get nothing, sometimes they find more food or other supplies, sometimes they get lucky and get a doctor, sometimes they find someone else that could be useful.

I'd model combat in. Roving groups of raiders in vehicles, another rebuilding town or city wanting what you have, etc. You could also send out raiding parties specifically at someone else or try and negotiate with other places.

Edit - Just an idea, but what about a first person and birds-eye view of the game. Kind of like what Savage does, but for one person. You can be in the commander seat and see the top down view of your city to organize the bigger picture and then go to first person and walk/fight around it. The ability to give orders in 1st person would have to be there as well. Not a necessity but I think it could be a nice touch.

[Grievous Angel]

I'm a sucker for pirates and Tropico 2, which I still play. It's really hard to not vote for Zeus, which I also dearly love.

[Thunderspark]

I voted for Tropico here(haven't played the second one yet), but if any of the simcitys were in the poll those would've gotten my vote. Dungeon Keeper is also a good game, but I think SimCity 4 or 2 were my favorite city building games.

[Zekester]

Do the 'Cultures' and 'Settlers' games count?

[Kelric]

Do the 'Cultures' and 'Settlers' games count?

I debated putting them in the poll. I really enjoyed Settlers 3 and the brief time I put into the first Cultures.

[Sepiche]

I'm guessing most haven't played it, but Emperor was by far the best of the city building line. Had all the flavor of the earlier games with lots of nice improvements for running your city. Once you got the hang of it you could get your city running like a nicely tuned engine. Man I loved that game.

Plus it had coop mode where you can a buddy could both run your own cities and contribute to building monuments on the campaign map. Much fun.

For sheer flavor and setting I liked Zues the best. I had a blast playing through the Atlantis campaign in that game.

s

[JonathanStrange]

I think some problems with it is that it would need to be more than a simple city-rebuilder. You'd need some RPG-type elements because you'd have to get individuals with certain types of knowledge so that your community could survive, let alone rebuild a city. For instance, how valuable would a doctor be? A power-plant worker? A civil engineer?

While this one wouldn't necessarily have to be true in the game, you'd probably be faced with people/groups that want what you have, especially with limited resources after any sort of apocalypse. Would you model some sort of combat/security into the game?

With regards to combat, I'm a bit lukewarm. Sure, I like things to explode and burn in general, but for a city builder? Not so much.

I like my city games concentrating on building, improving, designing. I do like some military or police for parades and such, or just to feel like we could handle trouble should trouble come calling, but otherwise: don't be burning my parks and rec centers!

A post-apocalyptic scenario probably requires some military/police so I'd expect to see it I guess.

Now, that I think about it, maybe I should try some games like Space Colony which I've heard about but never tried.

Does anyone remember much (I don't) about a game called Outpost which I believe was about establishing an outpost on a distant planet. Was that a builder?

But I digest...

[Kraken]

I'd play that post-apocalyptic one. I liked Afterlife, too. Anyone remember that one?

I think I remember Afterlife. Older game, bad graphics, people died and you got their souls. Something like that, correct? Or am I thinking of a different game?

That's the one. It was filled with groaner humor (like disco inferno, going to hell in a handbasket...). It had some very clever twists that never quite gelled into a great game.

[Kelric]

I'd play that post-apocalyptic one. I liked Afterlife, too. Anyone remember that one?

I think I remember Afterlife. Older game, bad graphics, people died and you got their souls. Something like that, correct? Or am I thinking of a different game?

That's the one. It was filled with groaner humor (like disco inferno, going to hell in a handbasket...). It had some very clever twists that never quite gelled into a great game.

I played the demo a few times, thought that was the one you meant.

[Cesare]

I shamelessly voted for Zeus, even tho the original Tropico is far-and-away my favorite city builder.

I played Tropico 2 all the way through, but was much more interested in the setting, music, political strategery, and more relaxed play style of the first one.

[Victoria Raverna]

I think some problems with it is that it would need to be more than a simple city-rebuilder. You'd need some RPG-type elements because you'd have to get individuals with certain types of knowledge so that your community could survive, let alone rebuild a city. For instance, how valuable would a doctor be? A power-plant worker? A civil engineer?

While this one wouldn't necessarily have to be true in the game, you'd probably be faced with people/groups that want what you have, especially with limited resources after any sort of apocalypse. Would you model some sort of combat/security into the game?

Send out 'expeditions' for a certain amount of food/ammo/gasoline costs with the specific goals to find a doctor. Send out another group looking for a power-plant worker. Sometimes they get nothing, sometimes they find more food or other supplies, sometimes they get lucky and get a doctor, sometimes they find someone else that could be useful.

I'd model combat in. Roving groups of raiders in vehicles, another rebuilding town or city wanting what you have, etc. You could also send out raiding parties specifically at someone else or try and negotiate with other places.

Edit - Just an idea, but what about a first person and birds-eye view of the game. Kind of like what Savage does, but for one person. You can be in the commander seat and see the top down view of your city to organize the bigger picture and then go to first person and walk/fight around it. The ability to give orders in 1st person would have to be there as well. Not a necessity but I think it could be a nice touch.

Except for being about pirate island and not about PA, Tropico 2 gameplay sound like your idea about PA city builder game.

[Kelric]

Well yeah, you've got to steal ideas from somewhere.

[Napoleon]

Huh, nice spread in the results.

Chose Tropico 2 myself. More streamlined than Tropico 1, and more fun than the other builders.

[ignar]

I vote for Caesar 3. It had its own issues and bugs, but the gameplay was totally immersive and I spent tons of hours playing. Some people argued that that the game was too hard, but I didn't agree. The follow ups like Pharaoh, Zeus, and Emperor were all good games, but for some reason, I've never been able to enjoy them as much as the Caesar 3. Oh, I gotta mention that Caesar 3 had one of the most complete and awesome demo version ever out.

[mathfed]

I had to vote for Zeus. I have played both it and Poseidon all the way through more than once. I simply love that game. Pharoah and Cleopatra were also great fun, but Zeus felt much more streamlined to me. For completeness, I picked up Caesar 3 a few years ago and tried playing it after playing the newer city builders. I just couldn't do it. As soon as I had to start screwing around with aquafers and fighting them to keep sections of my roads intact, I uninstalled. I have tried getting into it a few times, and have never been able to get over the aggravating water aspects of it.

Children of the Nile was a lot of fun I thought. I played it all the way through and had fun for the duration. I've been thinking of loading it up again. I hope they release an expansion for this, but I'm not sure it sold well enough to warrant one.

I have a lukewarm opinion of the Tropico games. They just didn't grab me. They were kinda fun at first, but got monotonous really fast for me.

No one has mentioned 1503 AD: The New World. I had a lot of fun with that game. I should really reinstall it to play it again. It had more of a Civ feel becasue you have to look for resources that may be only found on islands a distance away from your main island. So, you have to build ports, send workers there, harvest materials, and ship them to where they are needed. I really liked the more global aspect of it.

[Kelric]

No one has mentioned 1503 AD: The New World. I had a lot of fun with that game. I should really reinstall it to play it again. It had more of a Civ feel becasue you have to look for resources that may be only found on islands a distance away from your main island. So, you have to build ports, send workers there, harvest materials, and ship them to where they are needed. I really liked the more global aspect of it.

I played 1402 and never got into it. I never bothered giving 1503 a chance.

[swissmtndog]

must be demented, I own every game in the poll

I'd vote for Tropico 2 as well, with Zeus a close second

Startopia would be a contender for me if it was considered.

[Kelric]

must be demented, I own every game in the poll

I'd vote for Tropico 2 as well, with Zeus a close second

Startopia would be a contender for me if it was considered.

I own all of them, including Startopia, aside from Children of the Nile. I'll get it one of these days. I'm a city builder fan, but none of them have ever been what I dream of from a city builder.

[mathfed]

Startopia would be a contender for me if it was considered.

I completely forgot about Startopia. I REALLY need to load that one up again. It was a riot.

[PR_GMR]

I'd play that post-apocalyptic one. I liked Afterlife, too. Anyone remember that one?

I think I remember Afterlife. Older game, bad graphics, people died and you got their souls. Something like that, correct? Or am I thinking of a different game?

That's the one. It was filled with groaner humor (like disco inferno, going to hell in a handbasket...). It had some very clever twists that never quite gelled into a great game.

I played the demo a few times, thought that was the one you meant.

I too remember Afterlife! I thought it was a pretty decent game. I've played it several times since it was released back in '97... You didn't even have to install it--it played straight from the disk; I think this is what I liked most about it. I would like to see a modernized version of it.

Startopia--that's a game I need to go back to.