Have all the "good" people left Blizzard?

jpinard · Post by **jpinard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:24 pm

With the ridiculous direction WoW has been going, and with the leagues og people who left early, and are now leaving to setup their own shop or going to NCSoft... is it possible all the great talent - those with the amazing gameing vision have all left?

I'm afriad WoW is going down the same path Ultime On-Line did. Great idea and start, only to bury itself in mediocrity.

The Mad Hatter · Post by **The Mad Hatter** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:42 pm

WoW may not be updated at a very fast rate and I'm not a big fan of PvP, but the core game is fantastic. It's the first MMOG to really grip me since early UO. I'd thought the genre was forever dead to me but I was wrong. Even if I never played again I would have gotten my money's worth many times over.

jpinard · Post by **jpinard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:50 pm

I agree the "core" gameplay is great. Problem is, it appears most of those that designed the core gameplay have left.

SuperHiro · Post by **SuperHiro** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:04 pm

Until Blizzard produces a big ripe turd of a game, they will always get the benefit of the doubt for me.

In one of many Blizzard-related threads, tiny ogre said that Roeper wasn't THAT involved in Diablo II as hyped in the media, or something.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:16 pm

jpinard wrote:With the ridiculous direction WoW has been going...

Huh? It's may not the best game ever made, but...what direction is it going in that is rediculous?

Perhaps slow to release content, but direction as a criticism?

Jeff Jones · Post by **Jeff Jones** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:53 pm

jpinard wrote:I agree the "core" gameplay is great. Problem is, it appears most of those that designed the core gameplay have left.

Like who? link? references?

I see threads like these (and a few others), and have to say to myself... "gosh.. maybe I'm not having as much fun as I think I am!" -- then I go back to playing, and quickly forget threads like these.

I took a few months off from WoW, but I've been back in a few weeks now, and having as much fun as I ever did. It's got it's hooks in me again, and I usually can't wait to get back in and play.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:32 pm

To answer your question, yes, all the good people have left - the only ones remaining are the evil people.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:04 pm

Grifman wrote:To answer your question, yes, all the good people have left - the only ones remaining are the evil people.

Tiny Ogre is evil?

warning · Post by **warning** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:11 pm

Lee wrote:
Grifman wrote:To answer your question, yes, all the good people have left - the only ones remaining are the evil people.
Tiny Ogre is evil?

Has there ever been any doubt? He's not the frickin' Tiny Tooth Fairy.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:16 pm

Lee wrote:Tiny Ogre is evil?

He's seen Serenity and I haven't. That makes him evil in my book.

jpinard · Post by **jpinard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:18 pm

OK there have been 3 major sets of people leaving over the past 2 years, some to make their own studios, and others to join NCSoft.
And I think the whole Battlegrounds setup is messed up. All the content is moving towards quests that take too many large groups, and at L58 I can't get anything done or accomplished in just an hour. It's become like the whole Superquest thing in CoH. Where you have to dedicate an entire night to finish one thing.

Groups that left?

* Hellgate London creators.
* Guild Wars creators.
* A slew of them joined NCSoft at two different periods.
* http://www.readyatdawn.com/

http://www.grimwell.com/index.php?actio ... ews&id=268

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/03 ... 26948.html

Dhruin · Post by **Dhruin** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:51 am

Stieg Hedlund from Perpetual and the crew from Castaway Entertainment really need to hire more publicists - they're the "from the designers of Diablo" most overlooked by far.

DArtagnan · Post by **DArtagnan** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:26 am

I’ve been worrying about this too, though I think it’s entirely too early to say anything firm about the future of Blizzard.

I too was of the opinion that the MMORPG genre was not going anywhere, and I’ve been burned out for a loooong time. WoW rekindled my interest in a big way, and I’m just now starting to hit the wall after 3 months of great gaming.

I don’t actually think WoW did anything really innovative, it just had what all Blizzard titles have, great gameplay. They really know how to refine, polish and balance established ideas. That said, I do think the endgame is severely lacking, but really that’s always been a fact of gaming life. There is a reason it’s called endgame. No matter how much they cram in there, with hero classes and additional instances and what not, the core gameplay will remain very much the same thing. I’m not used to getting 3 months out of a game, especially not 3 months of continous gaming fun. I don’t think I will ever understand those people who get years out of a single title, without realising the pointlessness of it all. The last MMORPG I played for more than a few hours was Dark Age of Camelot, and that lasted about 3 weeks, before I started to foresee exactly what I could expect from the game. WoW blinded me, and I mean that in a good way. That is truly the mark of a quality title, to make one believe there is a point to killing endless waves of samey mobs.

About Blizzard, I too worry about the consequences of top people leaving. I was really looking forward to Diablo 3, as the genre is one of my favorites. With so many people involved with the prequel leaving to do their own thing, it could mean that D3 is either not going to be made, or will be a lesser game than it would otherwise have been. But that is also a sad fact of gaming life, and many other industries. Once something gets too big, it becomes hard to manage, and the individual flair will suffer for it. True artists tend to prefer having a say in the art itself, and care less about financial success, than about artistic integrity. Which is why I doubt we will see similar quality from Blizzard in the future. But Blizzard is just a name, and once the talent gets established elsewhere, quality will hopefully start to emerge from there. Sadly, art and business is like oil and water, and it will take a small miracle to mix it like it was mixed in Blizzard.

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:17 am

Rest assured, the only reasons devs would leave Blizzard is because of greed, and to get out from under the excessive dev cycles Blizzard (as a company) like to impose upon any project.

These developers working with Colonel Lord British only means one thing; they have crossed to the dark side and will now unleash their crap upon humanity way before it is ready.

Game development is not a zero-sum game. There is plenty of talent out there. I for one have no fear that a D3 would be anything other than a masterpiece like it's predecessors, not because of the devs, but because of the Blizzard philosophy of perfectionism.

Besides, the people that made the last Diablo lived in Canada didn't they?

DArtagnan · Post by **DArtagnan** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:25 am

Interesting, but I’m not convinced they left because of greed.

Not that I really know much about them, other than what I’ve read. It seems to me that they could just as well have left because they simply wanted to do something new or have more control. I doubt they see working on a game until it’s finished as a big problem. I actually think most developers crave that possibility, to be able to actually finish a game, instead of rushing to release.

Probably, the reasons are numerous and corresponding to the number of those that departed. We will probably never know, and we must wait until a game is released before we can say anything for sure.

Besides, the people that made the last Diablo lived in Canada didn't they?

As far as I'm aware, three "key" people from Blizzard North left to form Flagship Studios. They have one announced title in development: Hellgate: London, which seems to be a first person Diablo variant.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:51 am

Only TO knows for sure.

I was much more worried for Blizzard when Pat Wyatt and company left than I was when Bill Roper left. Bill has seemed like nothing but a mouthpiece to me.

I think Blizzard lost a lot of their innovative forces when TriForge was formed. I don't know which team they worked for, but the scope of DII and WCIII were but cut back dramatically (quite possibly coincidentally) after TriForge was formed.

As far as I can tell greed was not the motivating factor behind the decision to leave. I think it was simply morale. From what I read, when Vivendi, Universal, Seagrams (or whatever you want to call them) took over Blizzard become part of the corporate world. They were there to generate numbers for the stockholders.

I never picked up WoW (nor even Frozen Throne), but I have still have faith in Blizzard's ability to polish and shine. I fear for their innovation, but only time and their future games will tell. I can't imagine why WoW would be any worse than any other MMORPG, but I won't pay a monthly fee find out.

Toe · Post by **Toe** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:14 am

SlapBone wrote:
Game development is not a zero-sum game. There is plenty of talent out there. I for one have no fear that a D3 would be anything other than a masterpiece like it's predecessors, not because of the devs, but because of the Blizzard philosophy of perfectionism.

Yeah, but who is the primary factor behind this philosophy? What happens if they leave (or have left)?

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:23 pm

Toe wrote:
SlapBone wrote:
Game development is not a zero-sum game. There is plenty of talent out there. I for one have no fear that a D3 would be anything other than a masterpiece like it's predecessors, not because of the devs, but because of the Blizzard philosophy of perfectionism.
Yeah, but who is the primary factor behind this philosophy? What happens if they leave (or have left)?

Touche`

Ridah · Post by **Ridah** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:27 pm

I believe one hope we have is within the fans themselves who may become programmers at Blizzard in the future. I have a friend who pretty much only plays WoW and is a huge Blizzard fan, he's working on his degree so that one day he may be a programmer for Blizzard. I think people like my friend will be the ones who keep Blizzard going in the right direction.

jpinard · Post by **jpinard** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:03 pm

Ridah wrote:I believe one hope we have is within the fans themselves who may become programmers at Blizzard in the future. I have a friend who pretty much only plays WoW and is a huge Blizzard fan, he's working on his degree so that one day he may be a programmer for Blizzard. I think people like my friend will be the ones who keep Blizzard going in the right direction.

Good to hear!

In the many interviews I've read on people leaving Blizzard, it was primarily due to the corporate entity. We all know WoW shipped with some classes totally unfinished, and this was also a stimulus for some more to leave. When Blizzard is no longer "Blizzard", and more just a "part of VU" you have lost brilliance of a studio. Like when EA absorbed Origin.

Octopus Overlords

Have all the "good" people left Blizzard?

Have all the "good" people left Blizzard?

Re: Have all the "good" people left Blizzard?