Your most artistic game ever?

moomoocow42 · Post by **moomoocow42** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:32 pm

What would you consider the most artistic game ever made? When I say most artistic, I mean that every facet of the game must ooze creativity and art, moreso than your usual commercial game - artistic in terms of gameplay, music, graphics, character, dialogue, etc. My personal choice (though I'm sure that there are a bunch of other games that I'm just missing) is Grim Fandango.

Grim Fandango's graphics (though most of the backgrounds were not really 3D backgrounds) were wonderfully vivid, with amazingly consistent artistic theme and color. I swear I could draw Rubacava from scratch. The voice acting and dialogue - especially Manny and Meche - were on par with a lot of major motion pictures. The music - well, let's just say that I own the soundtrack, which to this day I still listen to regularly. The characters and story were so incredibly fleshed out and nuanced that I never wanted to leave. Though the ending is a happy one, I can't recall the last time I actually became depressed once the game ended. Yes. I'm a nerd. Everything about the Grim Fandango was artistic, except for the gameplay - but in it's defense, it was an adventure game after all.

What's your vote for most artistic game ever and why?

Vinda-Lou · Post by **Vinda-Lou** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:52 pm

I know many people would disagree, but Max Payne was an artisitic game. The mood, cut scenes, action sequences, it all gelled and made a great game. The designers were aiming for a feel to the game, and their vision was fulfilled IMHO.

sgoldj · Post by **sgoldj** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:15 am

Out of this World. Keep in mind how long ago it was developed and the presentation at the time.

I think I died a dozen times before I realized when the intro ended and the game started.

As I recall, it really was like playing a silent movie wit hthe cinematic cuts and lack of dialog.

I've not played it in years, but if you can stand OLD games, that was on of the best.

Huw the Poo · Post by **Huw the Poo** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:04 am

Easy. Any game in the Myst series. I used to play those games as much to immerse myself in the fantastic worlds as to actually get anywhere in them.

moss_icon · Post by **moss_icon** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:02 am

deus ex machina by pete crowther. you had to listen to a tape whilst playing it, or you wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jg27p ... DeusReview

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:38 am

Vinda-Lou wrote:I know many people would disagree, but Max Payne was an artisitic game. The mood, cut scenes, action sequences, it all gelled and made a great game. The designers were aiming for a feel to the game, and their vision was fulfilled IMHO.

My opinion only, but I think this game is the most inarticulate, ham-handed unartistic game I can think of. From the execrable writing to the cookie-cutter plot, to the borrowing of "bullet time" from the equally stupid "Matrix" movies, there's nothing about this game that did anything for me.

I'll take Ico or Beyond Good & Evil for my entrants in this.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:37 am

Gonna have to go with ICO. Art in the form of a game.

Vinda-Lou · Post by **Vinda-Lou** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:47 am

triggercut wrote:
Vinda-Lou wrote:I know many people would disagree, but Max Payne was an artisitic game. The mood, cut scenes, action sequences, it all gelled and made a great game. The designers were aiming for a feel to the game, and their vision was fulfilled IMHO.
My opinion only, but I think this game is the most inarticulate, ham-handed unartistic game I can think of. From the execrable writing to the cookie-cutter plot, to the borrowing of "bullet time" from the equally stupid "Matrix" movies, there's nothing about this game that did anything for me.

I'll take Ico or Beyond Good & Evil for my entrants in this.

I might be wrong, but Max Payne was in development well before the Matrix came out, with the Bullet Time idea in place. I'm talking about before it's graphical face lift, pre-1999.

Poleaxe · Post by **Poleaxe** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:56 am

triggercut wrote:
Vinda-Lou wrote:I know many people would disagree, but Max Payne was an artisitic game. The mood, cut scenes, action sequences, it all gelled and made a great game. The designers were aiming for a feel to the game, and their vision was fulfilled IMHO.
My opinion only, but I think this game is the most inarticulate, ham-handed unartistic game I can think of. From the execrable writing to the cookie-cutter plot, to the borrowing of "bullet time" from the equally stupid "Matrix" movies, there's nothing about this game that did anything for me.

I'll take Ico or Beyond Good & Evil for my entrants in this.

It is ham-handed, but on purpose I believe.

I'm going to throw out Morrowind. It was beautiful, well crafted, and lovingly detailed.

Sparhawk · Post by **Sparhawk** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:24 am

Another vote for ICO here. God of War comes in second place. Close tie for sure though.

B Dog · Post by **B Dog** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:32 am

I'm going to have to agree with our host and say Grim Fandango. From a pure art direction standpoint, it's the most thematically well-excuted game I've played.

So, you ask, why did I trade it away, leaving me to think almost weekly about reacquiring it?

Because I'm an idiot, that's why.

warning · Post by **warning** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:38 pm

Two here.

I really, really like the art style in the Warcraft games. Particularly World of Warcraft. It's like walking around in a painting.

I really liked the art style in Planescape: Torment. I'd love a first-person game set in that universe.

RydeCrash · Post by **RydeCrash** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:42 pm

Full Throttle, was sad to see FT2 get canned.

Ryde...

Jeff Jones · Post by **Jeff Jones** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:33 pm

warning wrote:Two here.

I really, really like the art style in the Warcraft games. Particularly World of Warcraft. It's like walking around in a painting.

That's what I was going to say. The art direction in WoW is pretty amazing.

moomoocow42 · Post by **moomoocow42** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:36 pm

triggercut wrote:
Vinda-Lou wrote:I know many people would disagree, but Max Payne was an artisitic game. The mood, cut scenes, action sequences, it all gelled and made a great game. The designers were aiming for a feel to the game, and their vision was fulfilled IMHO.
My opinion only, but I think this game is the most inarticulate, ham-handed unartistic game I can think of. From the execrable writing to the cookie-cutter plot, to the borrowing of "bullet time" from the equally stupid "Matrix" movies, there's nothing about this game that did anything for me.

I'll take Ico or Beyond Good & Evil for my entrants in this.

In Max Payne's defense, it's supposed to be a ham-handed, terribly obvious noir-styled game. What noir-styled book, movie, or game doesn't feature painful dialogue or predictable plot twists? But if you can manage to suspend your disbelief and accept Max Payne's "genre tendencies", I think it becomes a great artistic game. I mean, look at the movie Sin City. It's a classic noir movie based on a classic noir comic book. The dialogue is terrible and (in some ways) so is the plot. But if you accept it as such, it becomes a wonderfully atmospheric and fascinating movie. Actually, in some ways, I think Max Payne 2 is a better game artistically than the first because it moves away from its heavy noir roots - the dialogue became more seriously dramatic, less corny, and some of the level design was fantastic (Fun House, anyone?).

Oh, and I also have to give a vote for Planescape: Torment. Like reading a book and playing a game at the same time. The best of both worlds.

Eduardo X · Post by **Eduardo X** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:59 pm

Katamari Damaci, then Planescape: Torment.

The Max Payne games were pretty good too.

O.DOGG · Post by **O.DOGG** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:39 pm

Planescape: Torment is my first choice. Then ICO and Sanitarium.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:36 pm

Out of This World, Beyond Good and Evil and Sanitarium are all good choices.

I'll throw in Loom, The Last Express, The Dark Eye, Point of View, A Mind Forever Voyaging and Trinity. (Maybe Bad Day on the Midway, too, but I didn't get very far into it)

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:45 pm

moomoocow42 wrote: When I say most artistic, I mean that every facet of the game must ooze creativity and art, moreso than your usual commercial game - artistic in terms of gameplay, music, graphics, character, dialogue, etc.

Outcast. Not only was it an entirely original setting, it was fantastic to play, looked great despite the resolution, the race had a genuinely convincing feel to it, with their own language, customs, culture, look, and so forth. The dialogue was great, the story was great, and the music was fantastic.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:49 pm

I will third Out of This World and second Last Express.

OOTW can be played in a java applet I believe. Someone on OO posted a link to a site that has about 250 old games that can all be played online without downloading anything. Anyone remember that link? Had something to do with Apple...dang.

Shadari · Post by **Shadari** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:09 pm

I'd say that Syberia had some of the most impressive artwork I've ever seen in a game.

Kaigen · Post by **Kaigen** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:43 pm

Grim Fandango, Planescape: Torment, Last Express, Psychonauts, Sacrifice and Thief.

That is all.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:59 pm

moomoocow42 wrote:
In Max Payne's defense, it's supposed to be a ham-handed,

No, actually, it isn't. It's supposed to be a real attempt at noir, and it fails utterly on that most basic (and one would assume, easiest to assay) level. Max Payne apologists cannot have it both ways. While Max is having his family killed, he cannot be uttering howlingly bad dialogue for "sly comedic value". If that was the writer's intent, then it fails on an even deeper level than just "bad writing".

What noir-styled book, movie, or game doesn't feature painful dialogue or predictable plot twists?

Got a few?

The Black Dahlia, by James Ellroy
The Big Nowhere, by James Ellroy
LA Confidential by James Ellroy
White Jazz by James Ellroy
The Long Goodbye by Raymond Chandler
The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler
Farewell My Lovely by Raymond Chandler
The High Window by Raymond Chandler
The Maltese Falcon by Dashiell Hammett
The Postman Always Rings Twice by James Cain
After Dark, My Sweet by Jim Thompson
The Grifters by Jim Thompson
The Killer Inside Me by Jim Thompson
The Getaway by Jim Thompson
A Firing Offense by George Pelecanos
Nick's Trip by George Pelecanos
Rendezvous In Black by Cornell Woolrich
Shoot the Piano Player by David Goodis

Movies:
The Big Sleep (both versions)
Farewell My Lovely (new version especially)
Kiss Me Deadly
The Big Heat
The Maltese Falcon
Key Largo
Out Of The Past
Night Of The Hunter
Touch Of Evil
Lady Of Shanghai
Cape Fear (original with Mitchum, the king of American Film Noir)
Murder My Sweet
Body Heat
LA Confidential
The Maltese Falcon
Reservoir Dogs
Blood Simple
Chinatown
The Third Man
Criss Cross
Force Of Evil

The Big Clock
Night And The City
Kiss Of Death
The Desperate Hours
DOA (either version; Meg Ryan and Denny Quaid do really well in the remake)

...I'm sure I've left plenty of other worthies off those lists, but that's off the top of my head. Lots of brilliant dialogue, inspired plot twists, and ingenious plotting to be had there.

I mean, look at the movie Sin City. It's a classic noir movie based on a classic noir comic book. The dialogue is terrible and (in some ways) so is the plot. But if you accept it as such, it becomes a wonderfully atmospheric and fascinating movie.

Sin City works because the violence and dialogue are all delivered with a wink and a nudge of affection towards the genre. Max Payne tries to play it straight, and when people told the developer (who insisted on writing the hilariously awful dialogue himself) just how awful his writing was, he tried to make it sound as if he was wanting to have it both ways. Nope, doesn't work, sorry.

Poleaxe · Post by **Poleaxe** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:56 am

triggercut wrote:
moomoocow42 wrote:
In Max Payne's defense, it's supposed to be a ham-handed,
No, actually, it isn't. It's supposed to be a real attempt at noir, and it fails utterly on that most basic (and one would assume, easiest to assay) level. Max Payne apologists cannot have it both ways. While Max is having his family killed, he cannot be uttering howlingly bad dialogue for "sly comedic value". If that was the writer's intent, then it fails on an even deeper level than just "bad writing".

This is not my recollection at all. As far as I remember it was discussed both ways and we really don't know for sure.

I choose to believe that it was written with a wink and a nod- it made the game much more enjoyable.

baron calamity · Post by **baron calamity** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:05 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Freedom Force yet

Papageno · Post by **Papageno** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:02 pm

Hey, triggercut, you forgot to mention Chandler's _The Lady in the Lake_. Although I don't recall now if it was all that "noir". I just remember it was another great book with Phillip Marlowe in it (walking around in what must have been a permanent alcohol-induced haze).

(But I still enjoyed the Max Payne games... sorry.)

Ridah · Post by **Ridah** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:06 pm

I'll vote for Riven, I think most people played that game just to see the world.

D'Arcy · Post by **D'Arcy** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:08 pm

My vote goes to Final Fantasy VIII. I usually can't stand console RPGs, but in this one, everything just fits. Adorable characters, great art direction, memorable music, excellent pacing, all coming together to manifest ideas in a way that transcends traditional story telling.

Rincewind · Post by **Rincewind** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:28 pm

Torment.

Vinda-Lou · Post by **Vinda-Lou** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:46 pm

I'm replaying Outlaws right now, and it's pretty damn artistic. Cool Western atmosphere mixed with great animation. Another example of a game that meets its goal in terms of atmosphere.

Also, the first MDK was pretty artistic. There is one room where you are surrounded by obviously fake blue skies and trees, but when you shoot the walls down you are in the alien spaceship. The whole artistic direction was great and is one of the main reasons I come back to it every so often.

Giles Habibula · Post by **Giles Habibula** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:35 pm

Vinda-Lou wrote:I'm replaying Outlaws right now, and it's pretty damn artistic. Cool Western atmosphere mixed with great animation. Another example of a game that meets its goal in terms of atmosphere.

Oooohh!
Outlaws! Damn. Gotta go dig that one out next. Loved that art direction and pure western atmosphere. Not to mention the soundtrack. My God I just stood there on the ranch not moving, just listening to the music.

I thought Serious Sam was a very beautiful game. And unique-looking. Vivid colors, expansive levels, atmospheric in spite of its over-the-top-ness.

Kaigen · Post by **Kaigen** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:40 pm

Ridah wrote:I'll vote for Riven, I think most people played that game just to see the world.

I would say any of the Myst games could have a place in this thread. I'd have a hard time picking which of them is best in terms of art direction though.

On the topic of that type of adventure game, I'm also inclined to put in a vote for Obsidian.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:18 pm

An oldie, but a goodie:

Jolor · Post by **Jolor** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:39 pm

I was about to post The Neverhood; excellent call.

edit = I'll throw in a vote for Planescape: Torment and offer Twinsenn's Odyssey for consideration.

jeansberg · Post by **jeansberg** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:38 am

I have to say Torment as well.

The story, writing, characters, art, music. Everything.

Someone mentioned Outcast too, which i remember being a cool game. I don't remember much of the world though, except that i was surprised how movie-like the ending was for a game.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:39 am

I don't think it's the MOST artistic game ever, but it deserves a mention, so I'll throw out a vote for Sacrifice.

Creative world, beautiful graphics, good voice acting, creative gameplay, neat spell effects.

I admit, it can't hold up against Grim Fandango, but it was a cut above the rest.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:54 am

Hey, did they ever update that engine to directX (for Outcast?) I'd like to replay it sometime. I only got about 1/2 through the game.

And I gotta agree that Sacrifice was fairly artistic. Planescape has a great world, but I'm not sure that it's "artistic."

Seriously though, I think playing just a few minutes of ICO should be required for this thread

Ka Faraq Gatri · Post by **Ka Faraq Gatri** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:59 am

Shadari wrote:I'd say that Syberia had some of the most impressive artwork I've ever seen in a game.

I've never played it but I'd second Syberia as having the most visually impressive artwork I've seen in a game.

I might have to install Grim Fandango and take a look at it - I've had it for years but never played it (hope I can get it to run under XP)

Caine · Post by **Caine** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:23 am

outcast had such a great atmosphere to it and great music.

both of the twinsen's games, relentless and odyssey. again great music and a very unique art style.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:39 am

ChrisGrenard wrote:Seriously though, I think playing just a few minutes of ICO should be required for this thread

Isn't it a Playstation only game, though?

Octopus Overlords

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