More bad news on the PC Gaming front...

[Pyperkub]

... VE posted the list of best selling PC games for last week:

Battlefield 2 makes way at the top for Dungeon Siege 2, and rightfully so:

1) Dungeon Siege 2 - Microsoft
2) Battlefield 2 CD Edition - Electronic Arts
3) World Of Warcraft - Vivendi Universal
4) Guild Wars - NCsoft
5) The Sims 2 - Electronic Arts
6) Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 - Atari
7) Half-Life 2 - Vivendi Universal
8 ) The Sims 2 University Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
9) Madden NFL 2006 - Electronic Arts
10) Warcraft III Battle Chest - Vivendi Universal
11) Rome: Total War - Activision
12) The Sims Deluxe - Electronic Arts
13) Zoo Tycoon 2 - Microsoft
14) Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004: A Century Of Flight - Microsoft
15) Sim City 4 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
16) Empire Earth 2 - Vivendi Universal
17) Stronghold 2 - 2K Games
18 ) Roller Coaster Tycoon 3: Soaked Expansion Pack - Atari
19) Sid Meier's Pirates!: Live the Life - Atari
20) Diablo Battle Chest - Vivendi Universal

- Week ending August 20th

There is 1, count'em, ONE non-sequel/non-series game on the list.

Apparently, we WILL get what we pay for - more and more unoriginal sequels...

[The Preacher]

There is 1, count'em, ONE non-sequel/non-series game on the list.

Apparently, we WILL get what we pay for - more and more unoriginal sequels...

And yet there are few games that I would rather play than WoW, HL2, and RTW. Can I also add Silent Hunter 3 since it's a sequel (despite not being a top seller)? And Pirates! is certainly a great game.

Yes, Ultima 4 must have been part of the fall of PC gaming because it was the 4th (!) Ultima (5th if you dare count Alkabeth). And yet Origin went on to make 4 more great games in the series.

I just don't understand the automatic aversion to sequels. Some of the best games ever made were sequels because they learned from their pasts. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[quantum]

Screw originality. I want quality. And there's plenty of quality on that list.

I don't really care what the hell they call the game as long as it's compelling.

[Captain Caveman]

That list makes me crave Guild Wars 2.

[Daehawk]

Did you catch thier most wanted sequel poll? System SHock 3 beat out Baldurs Gate 3 and STarcraft 2. Yay. Wonder whatever happened to Bioshock?

[msurby]

The only scary thing that I saw was that the Diablo Battle Chest is still in the top 20. I have to agree with the others though: there are a lot of top-notch games on that list. Silly way to make a case for "The Death of PC Gaming!!!!"

[morlac]

Computer games are not like movies. PCgame sequals are usually better then the orginal. The best games I have played this year were all sequals....Gothic 2, Space Rangers 2, Battlefield 2, Max Payne 2. I'm gonna let you all in on a little secret....PC GAMING IS NOT DOOMED! How do i know this? WEll I have been gaming for 20+ years and I have never bought as many quality games as I have in the last 15 months. Hell I don't even have enough time to play them much lees if there were even more orginal titles.

[quantum]

That list makes me crave Guild Wars 2.

Chapter 2 supposedly is aiming for a Q1 2006 release.

[Pyperkub]

I'll grant that there is some serious quality on the list, but still, the paucity of original games on the list is not a good sign for PC gaming. Think about it - we're barely talking 5%.

Apparently marketing and branding *IS* more important than originality, and it may soon be more important than quality.

[brettmcd]

This arguement that sequals mean pc gaming is dying is a total pile of crap. What would you rather see, some new concept game that may or may not be good, or tried and true series games like Civ 4, Heroes of might and magic 5 (yes even 4 was a good game), and others. Who cares if a game is a sequal or not, all we should care about is if the game itself is good, and many times the sequals ARE good.

[Ridah]

This is an issue on consoles as well though, not just the PC front.

[The Preacher]

I'll grant that there is some serious quality on the list, but still, the paucity of original games on the list is not a good sign for PC gaming. Think about it - we're barely talking 5%.

Apparently marketing and branding *IS* more important than originality, and it may soon be more important than quality.

How do you know its not "quality is more important than originality"? WoW is certainly a quality game, as are HL2, RTW, WC3, and Pirates!. I can't speak to others since I don't own them but none seem like particularly bad games (maybe DS2?).

Furthermore, how is this new? How did Ultima's 4-7.5 sell? Or the Gold Box series? All sequels, all games varying from good to legendary and all sold well relatively. If you could find the best selling games by year for the last 20+ years, I doubt much has changed.

That's not to say there aren't problems with the PC game industry. But this list doesn't really support that, imo.

[KePoW]

I'll grant that there is some serious quality on the list, but still, the paucity of original games on the list is not a good sign for PC gaming. Think about it - we're barely talking 5%.

lol, so what? seriously, what the hell is wrong with sequels

the majority of my top 10 or 15 PC games of all time are sequels...games like Ultima 7, baldurs gate 2, diablo 2, system shock 2, etc

[CeeKay]

Wait a minute, did the Lorax abduct and replace Pyperkub?

[Zaxxon]

And what an awesome game that one non-sequel is. Mmm; Guild Wars.

[Kobra]

There is 1, count'em, ONE non-sequel/non-series game on the list.

Apparently, we WILL get what we pay for - more and more unoriginal sequels...

Sad really... Oh well, PC gaming is about dead for me other than Indy, Puzzle Games, and the odd original title that comes along.. I'm now refusing to purchase new mainstream FPS_Clone#98811 type games anymore. (including TurboGay 2005 or whatever else EA spews from their anus)

The PC gaming genre has officially been taken over by corporate suits, and gaming mainstream NoObs.

[Zurai]

This is an issue on consoles as well though, not just the PC front.

Bingo.

1. NCAA Football 06 (PS2) Electronic Arts
2. NCAA Football 06 (Xbox) Electronic Arts
3. Halo 2 Multiplayer Map Pack (Xbox) Microsoft
4. Fantastic 4 (PS2) Activision
5. Destroy All Humans! (PS2) THQ
6. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Xbox) Take-Two
7. LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (PS2) Eidos
8. Star Wars Battlefront (PS2) LucasArts
9. Conker: Live & Reloaded (Xbox) Microsoft
10. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2) Electronic Arts
11. Destroy All Humans! (Xbox) THQ
12. Medal of Honor: European Assault (PS2) Electronic Arts
13. Delta Force: Black Hawk Down (Xbox) NovaLogic
14. Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (PS2) Take-Two
15. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2) LucasArts
16. Burnout 3: Takedown (PS2) Electronic Arts
17. Fantastic 4 (Xbox) Activision
18. Madagascar (PS2) Activision
19. Juiced (PS2) THQ
20. Major League Baseball 2K5 (PS2) Take-Two

source: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/641/641639p1.html

Let's see, out of all of those, there are 3 games that are not sequels, series, or based off someone else's IP.

[yossar]

Maybe I'm crazy too but it would be a little nice to see more original games selling better.

Although it does seem that a lot of the time in PC gaming it works that a company:

1) Creates an original, but flawed game, that sells decently to poorly.
2) Creates a sequel that fixes most of the flaws and hopefully sells better.

See Warcraft, Dungeon Seige, Diablo, Dune, Dominions (ok, it didn't sell "well", it did relatively good compared to the budget), etc.

[Pyperkub]

Wait a minute, did the Lorax abduct and replace Pyperkub?

No - I still post in my threads . It just happened to hit VE today, and I had that blurb about 25 of 26 EA games in the works are sequels on the brain. This does not bode well for innovative new concepts getting development $ though.

[Andrew Wonser]

I think you guys are missing the most important point here. The Sims hasn't been number 1, 2, 3, 4 for many a week. Let us all rejoice.

[Eightball]

Yeah, not a whole lot of originality atm. Who cares? If it's fun, I'll play it. I can name a ton of very original, horrible games. I'm glad they aren't making a Daikatana 2, for instance. Success begets descendants; there's too much cache tied up in a successful series name nowadays (Diablo III would sell eleventy billion copies just based upon it being named Diablo III. Pypercubablo wouldn't sell jack based on the name...well Pypercub might buy a copy).

Yes, Ultima 4 must have been part of the fall of PC gaming because it was the 4th (!) Ultima (5th if you dare count Alkabeth). And yet Origin went on to make 4 more great games in the series.

*Cheer*. Nice on the 4 more great games, Preachy.

[baron calamity]

There are several original games coming out this fall. (The Movies, Indigo Prophecy, FABLE, Shattered Union, Fear) so maybe the chart will look different later this year.

[Shkspr]

Yep, gaming is dead, might as well go read a book.

So, everyone got their copy of A Feast for Crows preordered?

[Eightball]

Yep, gaming is dead, might as well go read a book.

So, everyone got their copy of A Feast for Crows preordered?

But...it's a sequel!!! Literature is dead!!!

[Bad Demographic]

Literature died a long time ago, Eightball. That's why so few people read anymore - it's always just more of the same.

[The Preacher]

Yeah, not a whole lot of originality atm. Who cares? If it's fun, I'll play it. I can name a ton of very original, horrible games. I'm glad they aren't making a Daikatana 2, for instance. Success begets descendants; there's too much cache tied up in a successful series name nowadays (Diablo III would sell eleventy billion copies just based upon it being named Diablo III. Pypercubablo wouldn't sell jack based on the name...well Pypercub might buy a copy).

Concur. If I were to pull out one classic example it would be Black & White. Original? Check! Brilliant idea? Check! Great potential? Check! Good game? Bzzzz.

Now, what happens if (hopefully when) B&W2 actually picks up the baton and turns the brilliant idea into a great game? Is that a bad thing because it's a sequel? Poppycock!

*Cheer*. Nice on the 4 more great games, Preachy.

Should I pad the number by including expansions?

[Kraken]

I wouldn't read much into a list made at the height of summer, when sales are slowest. You might want to revisit this topic after the big Q4 releases and the 900-pound gorilla of retail sales are past.

I have to agree...as much as I respect originality, iteration 1.0 of a game is often inferior to the first sequel, especially if the sequel is made by the same team. Sometimes iteration 3 is even better, and sometimes it starts to fade -- again, depending largely on the continuity of talent and stability in the company. I'm hard pressed to think of any iterations above 3 that surpassed their predecessors...maybe because very few dev teams manage to hang together for that long.

[quantum]

I'm hard pressed to think of any iterations above 3 that surpassed their predecessors...maybe because very few dev teams manage to hang together for that long.

Ultima, King's Quest, Quest for Glory, Leisure Suit Larry, Space Quest, SWAT, Might and Magic, and Wizardry, just to name a few on the PC. Consoles have even more.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, not a whole lot of originality atm. Who cares? If it's fun, I'll play it. I can name a ton of very original, horrible games. I'm glad they aren't making a Daikatana 2, for instance. Success begets descendants; there's too much cache tied up in a successful series name nowadays (Diablo III would sell eleventy billion copies just based upon it being named Diablo III. Pypercubablo wouldn't sell jack based on the name...well Pypercub might buy a copy).

Yes, Ultima 4 must have been part of the fall of PC gaming because it was the 4th (!) Ultima (5th if you dare count Alkabeth). And yet Origin went on to make 4 more great games in the series.

*Cheer*. Nice on the 4 more great games, Preachy.

Diablo sure sold like hotcakes - and how about Starcraft? If Blizzard released Pyperkubablo... I'd wager more than jack.

How's that Rocky VI movie coming along?

NOLF 2, not up to par of the original, and let's not even start with Lara and Tomb Raider... I'm actually of the opinion that Diablo 2 wasn't as good as Diablo 1 - it lost the foreboding atmosphere that really made the first one, and I enjoyed that even more than the new classes, skills, creatures, locales, etc. - technically superior, improved gameplay elements, less fun.

One point is that the other piece of sequel-itis is that more money goes into marketing than development. Yes there are good games on the sequel list, but look at this summer's movies. Not much originality to them, many sequels and remakes and mostly bad movies. Like it or not, gaming appeaers to be travelling down a similar path...

I hope you all are right.

[DireAussie]

There is 1, count'em, ONE non-sequel/non-series game on the list.

Apparently, we WILL get what we pay for - more and more unoriginal sequels...

What strikes me most is that many of these games were released more than 6 months ago. This is reflected in how the "unreleased games" section of this board isnt very lively.

[ChrisGwinn]

I think you guys are missing the most important point here. The Sims hasn't been number 1, 2, 3, 4 for many a week. Let us all rejoice.

Enjoy it while you can - the next expansion for The Sims 2 comes out on 9/13. I'll be buying it.

[Eightball]

Pyper, your specious claim that more is spent in marketing than development needs numbers for you to say that. Now you might be confused since you see a lot of "Madden 2006" or whatever commercials all over, but since they can expect sales of X units based upon sales of the previous version, they can spend more for marketing than they could on the original (even if it's the same percentage, you won't expect Diablo 1 to sell as well as it did when the business model was created...but you'd expect diablo 2 to sell very well based upon diablo 1).

So for the marketing more than development, prove it before you make that statement. I'd like to see numbers.

Oh and the Might and Magic series was awesome, the Wing Commanders were great, etc.

As you brought up yourself, this is something we see in the movie industry. This isn't gaming; it's the way people look at business. Proven commodity is worth much more than the unknown to investors...in any industry.

Should I pad the number by including expansions?

Considering I hold Ultima VII, part 2 Serpents Isle as one of my favorite games of all time (and I've played all Ultimas, even Alka in the plastic baggie as it was originally sold), go ahead

[Scanner]

For purposes of comparison, here's the list from 12/97:


1. 13 Riven: The Sequel to Myst (CD Win95)
2. Quake II (CD Win 95)
3. Barbie Magic Hair Styler (CD Win95)
4. Myst (CD Win)
5. Microsoft Flight Simulator (CDWin95)
6. Lego Island (CD Win95)
7. Frogger (CD Win95)
8. Tomb Raider II (CD Win95)
9. Deer Hunter (CD Win95/Win)
10. Tonka Search & Rescue (CD Win)
11. Barbie Fashion Designer (CD Win)
12. Monopoly Game (CD Win)
13. Microsoft Age of Empires (CD Win95)
14. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (CD Win95)
15. Scrabble (CD Win95/Win)
16. Tonka Construction (CD Win)
17. Madden NFL '98 (CD Win95/Win)
18. Warcraft II (CD MS-DOS)
19. Links LS Golf 1998 (CD Win95)
20. Barbie Ocean Discovery (CD Win95/Win)

[malichai11]

For purposes of comparison, here's the list from 12/97:


3. Barbie Magic Hair Styler (CD Win95)
11. Barbie Fashion Designer (CD Win)
20. Barbie Ocean Discovery (CD Win95/Win)

Damn, that brings back some memories. I really miss the heyday of the Barbie games.

Barbie Divorce Simulator (1998) and Barbie Back in the Dating Scene (1999) really crushed that series.

[quantum]

For purposes of comparison, here's the list from 12/97:


1. 13 Riven: The Sequel to Myst (CD Win95)
2. Quake II (CD Win 95)
3. Barbie Magic Hair Styler (CD Win95)
4. Myst (CD Win)
5. Microsoft Flight Simulator (CDWin95)
6. Lego Island (CD Win95)
7. Frogger (CD Win95)
8. Tomb Raider II (CD Win95)
9. Deer Hunter (CD Win95/Win)
10. Tonka Search & Rescue (CD Win)
11. Barbie Fashion Designer (CD Win)
12. Monopoly Game (CD Win)
13. Microsoft Age of Empires (CD Win95)
14. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (CD Win95)
15. Scrabble (CD Win95/Win)
16. Tonka Construction (CD Win)
17. Madden NFL '98 (CD Win95/Win)
18. Warcraft II (CD MS-DOS)
19. Links LS Golf 1998 (CD Win95)
20. Barbie Ocean Discovery (CD Win95/Win)

And people say PC Game quality is declining? Look at all the crap on that list...

[The Preacher]

For purposes of comparison, here's the list from 12/97:


1. 13 Riven: The Sequel to Myst (CD Win95)
2. Quake II (CD Win 95)
3. Barbie Magic Hair Styler (CD Win95)
4. Myst (CD Win)
5. Microsoft Flight Simulator (CDWin95)
6. Lego Island (CD Win95)
7. Frogger (CD Win95)
8. Tomb Raider II (CD Win95)
9. Deer Hunter (CD Win95/Win)
10. Tonka Search & Rescue (CD Win)
11. Barbie Fashion Designer (CD Win)
12. Monopoly Game (CD Win)
13. Microsoft Age of Empires (CD Win95)
14. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (CD Win95)
15. Scrabble (CD Win95/Win)
16. Tonka Construction (CD Win)
17. Madden NFL '98 (CD Win95/Win)
18. Warcraft II (CD MS-DOS)
19. Links LS Golf 1998 (CD Win95)
20. Barbie Ocean Discovery (CD Win95/Win)

And people say PC Game quality is declining? Look at all the crap on that list...

Wow, that is one seriously awful list of games.

[morlac]

LOL, the only decent games on that list from '97 are....sequals!

Barbie games? Who ever knew they were so popular?

[Jeff V]

A few years ago, I did a market analysis study on the top 10 games of 2001.

Six of them were published (or expansions of games that were) in 1998. The top-selling "original" game that year was the first Harry Potter movie. Considering the popularity of the license, EA could have shit in a box and sold as many copies as they did (after playing the game, I think they did, too). The top-selling "new" game that year was Diablo 2.

[Grifman]

Did you catch thier most wanted sequel poll? System SHock 3 beat out Baldurs Gate 3 and STarcraft 2. Yay. Wonder whatever happened to Bioshock?

Nothing, still being worked on, just nothing to show yet.

[The Mad Hatter]

And what an awesome game that one non-sequel is. Mmm; Guild Wars.

How is World of Warcraft a sequel? It's set in the Warcraft universe but the game mechanics are completely different from the RTS games.