A Song of Ice and Fire Re-read?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:38 pm

I've just started re-reading A Game of Thrones in prep for the (hopeful) release of A Dance With Dragons in mid-2009. I know there's nothing official putting release at that point, but I'm tired of waiting, so I'm starting now.

I thought perhaps some other ASoIaF fans here might be interested in also starting through the 3,000-page trek with me. What I envision is just a post reflecting on events every chapter or three. If no one else is interested it'd be pretty boring, but if we can get several people contributing, I imagine we could have some lively discussion.

Anyone interested?

I just finished Bran's first flight chapter. I didn't realize the first time through that it was so obvious that he's already actually seeing events far away through his third eye. Intriguing.

Also, news to no one but Joffrey is such a little bitch.

wire · Post by **wire** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:06 pm

I remember way back in the GG days myself and a couple other people from the forum were breaking down each chapter. Things like introducing new characters and plot lines. I don't remember why we didn't continue but it was fun while it lasted.

yossar · Post by **yossar** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:07 pm

I think it's still too far away for me, even being optimistic about the release date. I'm not going to re-read the series twice before the next book comes out.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:38 am

yossar wrote:I think it's still too far away for me, even being optimistic about the release date. I'm not going to re-read the series twice before the next book comes out.

May as well wait until all of the books are out to re-read... I'll be retired by then and have lots of time on my hands (it's funnier if you know I'm at least 30 years from retirement

).

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:53 am

True. Why wait? Winter is coming.

Torfish · Post by **Torfish** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:49 pm

I love this series! Absolutely love it. I'm on book 3 (Storm of Swords). My life is extemely busy with work, wife, and kids. But whenever I have a few minutes, I read a few pages at a time from this series. I always have the book within reach of me and I never liked to read that much before! It is taking me about 6 months to read one book. I read every word and these books are huge in length. I don't want it to end really. It is that good.

Holy crap I came to a part last night that was shocking as hell. I won't spoil it, but damn it is a massive shocker. I'm about 60% or so into book 3 now.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:52 pm

Torfish wrote:I love this series! Absolutely love it. I'm on book 3 (Storm of Swords). My life is extemely busy with work, wife, and kids. But whenever I have a few minutes, I read a few pages at a time from this series. I always have the book within reach of me and I never liked to read that much before! It is taking me about 6 months to read one book. I read every word and these books are huge in length. I don't want it to end really. It is that good.

Holy crap I came to a part last night that was shocking as hell. I won't spoil it, but damn it is a massive shocker. I'm about 60% or so into book 3 now.

No kidding was it a shocker! There are even more later

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:11 pm

There are no spoilers in this thread, so feel free to share. That's kind of the point of the thread, actually.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:16 pm

Well since he isn't done with book 3, anything past 60% in to book 3 would be a spoiler for him. I'm only about 25% into book 4. I better get out of here!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:27 pm

Teggy wrote:Well since he isn't done with book 3, anything past 60% in to book 3 would be a spoiler for him. I'm only about 25% into book 4. I better get out of here!

True. Get readin', and then rejoin!

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:29 pm

Torfish wrote: Holy crap I came to a part last night that was shocking as hell.

odd and usually the series is so predictable. almost as predictable as when the next book will come out.

lch · Post by **lch** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:03 pm

Does somebody here own the boardgame for that? In that case, PM please.

Torfish · Post by **Torfish** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:04 am

Since there are going to be spoilers here, I definitely will be careful reading anything past where I'm at now. Thanks for the heads up!

Book 3 spoiler:
Ok, so I guess most of you know what I was talking about with the ambush of Robb's army. The killing of Robb and his mother, man what a way to kill off two major characters within two pages! About 25% of the series just ended right there. I was so focused on Arya meeting up with them. She was within minutes of seeing them!!! The author's writings of Cate's last moments were awesome. I felt like I was right next to her. This is a cruel world. No one is safe. Still I will miss this plot.

My favorite characters now are: the dragon lady, Sam, Davos, Arya, Tyrion, and Jon. Tyrion was definitely the best character in Book 2. He has taken a lesser role in book 3. His raw way of speaking his mind especially to his family is classic and hilarious, makes me laugh out loud.

I hope the plot line for Jon keeps going strong. He is my best 'good' character I like reading. I wonder if he is now the king of the winterfall with Robb getting killed? Robb talked about it, but Cate didn't want it. Did Robb send out a message to Jon?

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:30 am

I just finished book 4 about a month ago (my first time reading the series).

There was another thread here or over at GT where I referenced Robb's murder. I was pissed..very angry. The crazy thing is I never get that way reading a book.

I've never read a series with such rich character development. Very few characters are as they seem after first impressions and I've found my 'favorites' shifting as the series progresses.

As far as characters go:

Jaime - went from probably my most hated to my favorite. The transformation and realizations he goes through are outstanding.

Tyrion - also one of my favorites. I don't think he was ever meant to be hated by the reader...I just kind of root for him.

Catelyn - was kind of neutral on her and Robb. Curious to see how her thread plays out with Brienne cliffhanger at the end of book 4.

Arya - really like her. I'm pretty sure I said 'F**k Yeah!' out loud when she and Clegane got into the fight with The Mountain's men (The Tickler specifically) in the inn.

Jon - I like his character and am ready to see how things are going on The Wall since he only had a cameo in Book 4.

The Hound - the freaking hound. How can a character be so vile and hated yet still get grudging respect and even admiration (from me) by the end?

Cersei - hottie.

Danerys - I've been pretty uneven on her plot line though the sacking of the slave city by the Unsullied was amazing, even if it was telegraphed pretty early on in the chapter.

I really like how the 'traditional' fantasy elements are gradually being introduced (with the notable exception of The Others). The world seemed very unfantastical (i.e. no magic / dragons), yet clearly it had been in the past and is becoming so again.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:49 am

Redfive wrote:I really like how the 'traditional' fantasy elements are gradually being introduced (with the notable exception of The Others). The world seemed very unfantastical (i.e. no magic / dragons), yet clearly it had been in the past and is becoming so again.

Ditto. It's a testament to Martin that he has taken the series from nearly no magic (aside from the obvious Others in the prologue to book 1) to what seems like it will be a fairly fantastical second half to the series, without making it feel like he's just tossing things in to keep the plot fresh.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:39 pm

I'm 3/4 done with book 11 in Jordan's Wheel of time. A good friend of mine has read that series a couple times. He however is reading through SoIaF right now and it's fun when he shows up at the gym in the morning all, "wtf just happened to my favorite character X?". He's about the same spot as Torfish right now.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Austin wrote:I'm 3/4 done with book 11 in Jordan's Wheel of time. A good friend of mine has read that series a couple times. He however is reading through SoIaF right now and it's fun when he shows up at the gym in the morning all, "wtf just happened to my favorite character X?". He's about the same spot as Torfish right now.

Well to be fair to him, it's hard to adjust to GRRM when you're used to skirt pulling and hair-tossing as highlights of entire chapters.

I can't imagine making it to 11, especially now that we're guaranteed WoT won't be completed (properly). I made it to book 8 I believe, and the last three I read were struggles. It's a shame, because I still read the first chapter of The Eye of the World occasionally since it's Pure Awesome spread across a few pages.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:30 pm

WoT is a classic example of an author losing control of his story. There were a LOT of parts of WoT that I enjoyed quite a bit, but it was also clear that they guy had more stuff going on in his head than he was capable of turning into a cohesive plot.

I think this is the difference with GRRM. His tale has at least as many significant characters (probably more), just as many historical events influencing the present, just as many plot twists and surprises, yet he keeps everything smoothly in motion with minimal pointless rambling and few plot holes.

Sith

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:12 pm

Sith Lord wrote:yet he keeps everything smoothly in motion

kept.

There's a reason he isn't going anywhere with the books now and the current book became too books... he's losing control.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:22 pm

I've got the first couple of books, but I haven't even cracked them yet. I'm planning on waiting until the last book in the series is on the horizon and then doing the whole series at once. There's nothing I hate more than reading parts of a good story several years apart, meaning that I usually end up going back and rereading the earlier parts each time a new book is released. With Wheel of Time, I did this for the first half-dozen books before giving up. Since then, I just make myself be patient until a series is near completion.

craterus · Post by **craterus** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:25 pm

I agree that there seem to be very few wasted words (see my signature for beautiful words) except for book 4 which was full of pointless rambling. Funny thing was that there was supposed to be a time gap to allow for the younger characters time to get older (I look forward to seeing Rickon and Arya much older). He claimed he had to restart the book due to the need to tell the important stories that were originally going to be told as flashbacks. When I read book 4 it seemed like there wasn't any plotline that could not have been easily summed up in a couple of paragraphs via flash back.

Back on topic... I just finished book 1, so I will wait a bit to join in on the conversation.

Favorite = Tyrion
Far too many great lines...

One of my favorite minor characters is Hodor (especially enjoyed the description of him being harassed by children and his refusal to defend himself), I hope he is the Camaris of this story - perhaps he is the Last Hero?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:29 am

craterus wrote:
One of my favorite minor characters is Hodor (especially enjoyed the description of him being harassed by children and his refusal to defend himself), I hope he is the Camaris of this story - perhaps he is the Last Hero?

Hodor wrote:Hodor!

Zork · Post by **Zork** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:29 am

I'm almost done with A Feast for Crows (audiobook) and I cannot tell you how disappointed I am with it. The story is okay, but the narration is killing it for me.

I listened to John Lee read The Pillars of the Earth and thought he did a great job. However, after hearing the first three by Roy Dotrice, this most recent book is *almost* unbearable. I don't know what it is, but Dotrice makes the story come alive (sounds cheesy, but it's true). Each character has their own distinct voice and personality.

John Lee reads fine, but he tries to give everyone the same "highbrow" tone in their voice. Not to mention that he has changed the pronunciation on several names and words. I know he's a different narrator trying to do his own thing, but do a little homework for the sake of consistency!

I am sorely tempted to go back to the beginning just to appreciate how truly awesome Roy Dotrice is.

-Zork

[edit: mah grammar]

craterus · Post by **craterus** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:59 pm

theohall wrote:
craterus wrote:
One of my favorite minor characters is Hodor (especially enjoyed the description of him being harassed by children and his refusal to defend himself), I hope he is the Camaris of this story - perhaps he is the Last Hero?

Hodor wrote:Hodor!

I have said it before - if the genie gives me 3 wishes - one of them will be to make it so GRRM puts in a Hodor POV...

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:04 am

Zork wrote:I'm almost done with A Feast for Crows (audiobook) and I cannot tell you how disappointed I am with it. The story is okay, but the narration is killing it for me.

I listened to John Lee read The Pillars of the Earth and thought he did a great job. However, after hearing the first three by Roy Dotrice, this most recent book is *almost* unbearable. I don't know what it is, but Dotrice makes the story come alive (sounds cheesy, but it's true). Each character has their own distinct voice and personality.

John Lee reads fine, but he tries to give everyone the same "highbrow" tone in their voice. Not to mention that he has changed the pronunciation on several names and words. I know he's a different narrator trying to do his own thing, but do a little homework for the sake of consistency!

I am sorely tempted to go back to the beginning just to appreciate how truly awesome Roy Dotrice is.

-Zork

The good news is that you're far from alone, and the feedback has been heard loudly and clearly. GRRM has said that Dotrice WILL be reading the next book. I don't know whether I think it's a shame that the weakest book (so far anyway) gets the weakest reading, or if I think it's good that none of the really stellar books suffered from Lee's read. I just know that if I had to listen to him read "THE SEASTONE CHA-AH" one more time I was like to scream.

And I can tell you what it is about Dotrice - he's truly the greatest master of voices I've ever heard.

*he gives each character a unique voice in timbre and accent
*he's consistent with each character, even from book to book (and I have to wonder, how the hell does he do that?? There's no easy way to keep written notes on such a thing. How does he remember what tenor, pitch, accent, etc. he used for some tier-3 character from two books ago??)
*he actually took the time to develop regional and/or family accents and then apply them to related characters. The Lannisters are an outstanding example of this. Listen to him read Tyrion, Jaime and Tywin - they all have distinctly different voices, yet they all have a similar accent.
*he deftly handles character-distinctive voice qualities including gender, age, infirmity, and especially social class. You can immediately visualize a Dotrice-read character as soon as they start to speak.

You can see in the first book (or so) that Dotrice was still perfecting his craft, but by the early part of book 2 and beyond, he's got it truly mastered. I used to travel a lot and I've listened to quite a few audiobooks - I've never heard anyone come close to Dotrice's ability.

Sith

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:05 am

coopasonic wrote:
Sith Lord wrote:yet he keeps everything smoothly in motion
kept.

There's a reason he isn't going anywhere with the books now and the current book became too books... he's losing control.

Only time will tell, but I am afraid you may be right. Given the insane amount of time he spent on AFfC, it wasn't as good as it should have been.

Zork · Post by **Zork** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:04 pm

Sith Lord wrote:The good news is that you're far from alone, and the feedback has been heard loudly and clearly. GRRM has said that Dotrice WILL be reading the next book.

Glad to hear it!

Again, John Lee did a fine job on The Pillars of the Earth, but there are too many characters in ASoIaF and Mr. Lee just doesn't have the range.

Sith Lord wrote:And I can tell you what it is about Dotrice - he's truly the greatest master of voices I've ever heard.

*he gives each character a unique voice in timbre and accent
*he's consistent with each character, even from book to book (and I have to wonder, how the hell does he do that?? There's no easy way to keep written notes on such a thing. How does he remember what tenor, pitch, accent, etc. he used for some tier-3 character from two books ago??)
*he actually took the time to develop regional and/or family accents and then apply them to related characters. The Lannisters are an outstanding example of this. Listen to him read Tyrion, Jaime and Tywin - they all have distinctly different voices, yet they all have a similar accent.
*he deftly handles character-distinctive voice qualities including gender, age, infirmity, and especially social class. You can immediately visualize a Dotrice-read character as soon as they start to speak.

Absolutely agree 1000%. I have also wondered if he kept notes on his characters. He is so consistent (even with minor chartacters like you mentioned) it's mind boggling.

I haven't listened to a lot of audio books, maybe a dozen or so, but I'm glad I have had the opportunity to listen to Roy Dotrice.

Happy reading (or listening)

-Zork

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:56 pm

Sith Lord wrote:Only time will tell, but I am afraid you may be right. Given the insane amount of time he spent on AFfC, it wasn't as good as it should have been.

Thanks god I'm not the only one who noticed this. Book three seemed to falter quite a bit in the second half while book four was mostly filler. I understand that the series is about the realm as a whole, but the books falter the further Martin strays from the core Stark/Lannister family characters.

Book five is rumored to be looming but frankly I can't find myself giving too much of a shit, unless it is touted as a return to form.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:11 pm

I think AFfC is universally recognized as the weakest book of the series and a weak book in its own right. It just didn't do enough to advance the overall story and continued, as noted, to stray farther from the main storyline (by digging deeply into entirely new realms that had previously been unexplored - predominantly the Iron Isles and Dorne).

Though without entering into spoiler-territory, it's fair to say that there were some fairly significant plot-focused reveals that took place. But they weren't enough to pull the entire book into the condition of being relevant to the story as a whole or even just a good and engaging read.

Here's hoping that Martin gets his mojo back for Dance with Dragons.

Sith

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:22 pm

I didn't think AFfC was bad. I think we were all a little spoiled since it didn't continue the trend:

AGoT = Woot.

ACoC = W00t!

ASoS = OMGW00t!!!!

AFfC = Yep.

I also think AFfC suffered due to the fact that it was originally supposed to be intertwined with the next book. We lost half the characters, which necessarily impacts the story.

But in the end I agree--AFfC is the weakest of the 4 released books. I'm just still happy to have it.

craterus · Post by **craterus** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:46 pm

Zaxxon wrote:I didn't think AFfC was bad. I think we were all a little spoiled since it didn't continue the trend:

AGoT = Woot.

ACoC = W00t!

ASoS = OMGW00t!!!!

AFfC = Yep.

I also think AFfC suffered due to the fact that it was originally supposed to be intertwined with the next book. We lost half the characters, which necessarily impacts the story.

But in the end I agree--AFfC is the weakest of the 4 released books. I'm just still happy to have it.

Couldn't agree more on your rating system (I typically tell people that AGoT was in the top 5 books I have ever read (when I first read it) and that ACoC was 10 times better, and that ASoS was 100 times better)...

So what chapter are you on? I feel bad for contributing to the derail of your re-read thread... I re-finished the first book about a week ago - and would like to jump in on the conversation occasionally.

I simply can't believe that my eyes glided over the sentence in my sig without even a raised eyebrow the first time through... that early chapter (the puppy chapter) in the first book was dominated with the conversation about the omen of the stag killing the wolf. It jumped out in a flashing neon sign after a re-read knowing the current "truth" of his character.

Blackhawk wrote:I've got the first couple of books, but I haven't even cracked them yet. I'm planning on waiting until the last book in the series is on the horizon and then doing the whole series at once.

I suspect the last book will be on the horizon in about 15 years...

The one thing I tell my friends about this series that feel the same way you do is this... The first 3 books are a complete story arc... yes there is a future in the series and will be left wondering what will happen to the characters, but when I closed the 3rd book I was satisfied. The second thing I tell my friends is that the first 3 books are VERY re-readable. There are many gems that shine more brightly on a second and third read.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:51 pm

craterus wrote:So what chapter are you on? I feel bad for contributing to the derail of your re-read thread... I re-finished the first book about a week ago - and would like to jump in on the conversation occassionally.

I'm on p338 of AGoT, an Arya chapter currently. But I've read them all, so feel free to comment on any part of any of the books. It doesn't look like we're going to get an actual somewhat synchronized re-read going, so I think we'll have to settle for a running thread of commentary on the series as a whole. I'm always up for any ASoIaF commentary.

craterus · Post by **craterus** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:40 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
craterus wrote:So what chapter are you on? I feel bad for contributing to the derail of your re-read thread... I re-finished the first book about a week ago - and would like to jump in on the conversation occassionally.
I'm on p338 of AGoT, an Arya chapter currently. But I've read them all, so feel free to comment on any part of any of the books. It doesn't look like we're going to get an actual somewhat synchronized re-read going, so I think we'll have to settle for a running thread of commentary on the series as a whole. I'm always up for any ASoIaF commentary.

Just cracked it open --- the quote in my sig is from the first freaking chapter... no wonder I glossed over it the first time - for some reason I keep thinking that it was a couple of chapters into the book...

One cool thing about Bran's first chapter is that it was Gared from the prologue that was beheaded (based on the frostbite ears and finger).

The eddard chapter before your current chapter had a prelude to one of the great future battles in the series (the hound vs the mountain).

regarding your current chapter --- we are well into Arya's training and she finds the secret passages with the discussion between the puppeteers talking about manipulating the current political turmoil to their advantage (they seem preoccupied with the princess - has the beggar king already been crowned at this point?) - I can't remember now if it is the same passage that Tyrion uses for his exit from ASoS... Arya tells her father all he needs to know if only he could believe a childs words and she meets her savior who thinks she is a boy in this chapter. And Ned hears of the action at the inn... sweet. Desmond tells his lie.

I wish I could find the site that had all the chapters summarized (along with first appearances of characters listed - i think someone said there was a connection between a characters intro chapter and any of the legends that may be in the same chapter).

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:15 pm

378 now... Just had our intro to the True Warden of the East, breast-feeding at 6 years old and trembling.

"Is he a bad man?" the Lord of the Eyrie asked, his mother's breast popping from his mouth, the nipple wet and red.

"A very bad man," Lysa told him as she covered herself, "but Mother won't let him harm my little baby."

"Make him fly," Robert said eagerly.

Lysa stroked her son's hair. "Perhaps we will," she murmurred. "Perhaps that is just what we will do."

*shudder*

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:50 pm

And this is a good chapter summary site.

ezmate · Post by **ezmate** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:11 am

I don't have anything to add other than this series is, by far, my favorite series. It's not even close.

I'm currently going through a 3rd or 4th reading of the entire series. Actually, I've read each book only once, but I've listened to Roy Dotrice 2 or 3 times. I'm half way through the 3rd book right now.

It's amazing all of the small comments that seem to jump off the page the more times you read it.

craterus · Post by **craterus** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:11 am

Zaxxon wrote:And this is a good chapter summary site.

I was thinking of a different one (but this one is good - thanks for the link)

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:19 pm

Today's reading: one king is bored to death (tee hee), while another gets his golden crown.

And I had to stop before I read Ned's next chapter. Painful...

BigBoneTone · Post by **BigBoneTone** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:25 am

Really enjoyed this series right up to the latest book; what a disappointment. Also, as an unabashed Robert Jordan apologist, I must encourage you all to stick with the series. Books 10 and 11 really get back to basics and are excellent reads.

And some exciting news: HBO has ordered a pilot of the Song of Ice and Fire and will hopefully pick it up as a series for next year.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Re-re-reading the series again, in honor of this:

Tower of the Hand wrote:Over at the Terry Brooks Forum, Shawn Speakman reports from Comic-Con, where GRRM's editor Anne Groell says she expects to get the final draft of A Dance with Dragons by October or November. Here's the relevant passage:
Shawn Speakman wrote: George has indeed passed the 1000 page mark as of last week and those are, to him according to Anne, finished pages that will not be returned to. He also has several hundred more pages of not completed chapters that every week he makes progress on. Some of those will be in Dance; others will be in the next book. Anne also thinks she'll be getting the book by October or November, which to her would probably make it a February or March 2010 release, although the progress he is making is quickly happening and she could receive it sooner if those incomplete or mostly complete chapters come together faster.
This basically confirms what GRRM has said recently, but it's good to see another source on his progress.

Yes, we've had countless 'progress! Soon now!' notes, but this one is actually from someone who actually knows what's going on other than GRRM...

Anyone else in the process of reading or re-reading the series?