Dawn of War 2

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:50 am

I doubt it's the first review, but IGN has their review up - 9/10!

http://pc.ign.com/articles/954/954749p1.html" target="_blank

Can't wait for this. Should be making a store run sometime on the afternoon of the 19th to pick it up.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:19 am

Word is this is available from Steam now and some lucky folks (Australia only, it appears) actually have the real thing in their hands today.

Edit: Australia only, yup. Steam still shows 22 hrs to unlock. Silly.

KiloOhm · Post by **KiloOhm** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:14 pm

Someone please post some Single Player impressions when you get it. If I buy it it would be mostly for the SP and for some comp-stomping. The AI for comp-stomping is pretty meh so I'm hoping the SP is scripted enough so it's much more of a challenge.

Chaplin · Post by **Chaplin** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:39 pm

Jow wrote:Word is this is available from Steam now and some lucky folks (Australia only, it appears) actually have the real thing in their hands today.

Edit: Australia only, yup. Steam still shows 22 hrs to unlock. Silly.

Eh, I am okay with the two day wait rekindling my passion/ lust for the retail after that very VERY generous beta. While I guess the game does not appeal to some, it is the perfect storm for me with its middle ground between RTS and RTT, universe from a game I used to play table top (and still read novels about), and an accessible yet still interesting design direction that pushes borders that (in my mind) some more traditional RTSers can't or won't get their minds around. Tomorrow starts my love affair that will grow over time with patches, DLC, and expansions into what I am pretty sure will be a game I look back at as one of the very best of all time years from now. Which is how I feel about DoW1 (or Kohan and Total Annihilation to give you an idea of my bias).

That said, their retail map count (5 plus 2 more in a "release day" patch coming shortly after release) borders on insulting. And The AI does need some massive help to be fair.

ydejin · Post by **ydejin** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:55 pm

Dawn of War 2 is now available for download and is unlocked on Steam for North American users.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:26 pm

I was afraid of this - despite previous problems with the beta on steam I made the leap and bought it tonight, and regret it. This time I can't get the download to even start properly, this after attempting every fix they recommend, deleting all local content 2-3x and restarting, etc etc. Trying to see if I can get a refund and just buy retail tomorrow - has anyone done this before?

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:33 pm

It may just be the servers getting hammered. I purchased Clear Sky during the super cheap weekend sale a few weeks ago and could not get it to work no matter what I did. A day later I started steam and it worked fine first try.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:36 pm

welp, assuming they'll grant me a refund, their loss. My preference is to buy digital but if they can't make their shit work, it's not an option.

ydejin · Post by **ydejin** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:41 pm

From a Relic Developer on the Penny Arcade Forums

Croak wrote:But let me offer this piece of advice:

Most of you reading this who have spent the last few weeks playing the MP beta should start the game in Hard (Captain) difficulty. Easy (Recruit) and Normal (Sergeant) probably won't offer up enough challenge for you, by design. Keep in mind we tuned the Easy/Normal difficulty curves based on "fresh" players to the game and the genre.

Stay away from Primarch difficulty though, unless you like pain or a serious challenge. It's punishing.

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:55 pm

I bought it on Steam and started downloading it about a half hour ago. I was expecting slow download rates or weird problems but so far (knock on wood) it's coming in fast and furious. I'm 75% done at a rate of 1.4MB per second.

I haven't played the beta demo or anything but I'm very psyched to check it out. Relic does superb work.

Update: I just played the first two campaign missions and I'm liking it so far. It's pretty much Company of Heroes with loot and xp so you can level up your heroes. Fun stuff.

The game crashed on me twice however, and both times on the squad level up screen. Not sure what's up with that.

Turin Turambar · Post by **Turin Turambar** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:18 am

I am liking the sp campaign more than the MP.

It's somehow between in the middle place between a linear campaign with narrative and a skirmish based campaign like the last two campaigns seen in expansions of the first DoW. It features things found in these two different styles. There is a clear, focused (but not that good, it's not starcraft

), narrative thread in the campaign, with some little cutscenes and briefings, combined with missions you have to choose, types of missions and map that repeat in the campaign, etc.

I like the "strategic" part, and with that i refer to the screen between missions, it's not like a full fledged meta-game but improves the involvement you have in the game. You improve and customize your squad stats with attribute points (melee, hp, firepower, energy), also unlocking special abilities as you progess enough in these stats. Also you have the "loot" part of the game, different gadgets and weapons you can choose from, use, exchange between squads, or "sell" it for experience. It's not like a Diablo game, there isn't a greaaat variety of loot, it's more just another factor to have a few more options to customize the tactical capabilites of your squads (and i think that's a good decision). There is also that little craving when you get a new shiny level 8 armor but you are still level 6, and you play more missions you had planned just to level up and try the new equipment.

You can conquest secondary objetives (three types), structures in the map, sometimes you have to choose one or the other. The good thing it's how these objetives gives you both a tactical advantage (a new accesory usable X times, where X is the number of that type of structure taken) and a strategic advantage (one gives you bonu xp, other gives you more deffensive stuff in future defense missions, etc).
As you follow the campaign the tyranid invasion begins (spoilers? come on everyone knows there are tyranids!) and you have to "control" a tyranid invasion rating on each planet, balancing missions where the rating is lowered and others where you can gain new stuff but the rating raise up (as you aren't fighting tyranids in that mission and time passes).

There is another novel feature i wanted to comment. Every mission you make is one day in the campaign, and sometimes there are missions with limited time (expires in two days) and i suppose the tyranid rating raises slowly every x days. The thing is, when you finish a mission you are given a rating of how good was done, if you did it very well (also can win additional score with a secondary structure) you can win a second or third deployement in that day, making one mission more without having to pass to the next day. Sadly, one of the things it rates is how fast you made into the mission, and i am a slow, methodical strategist

.

So far, so good. What are the bad points? I can see three minuses, three flaws in the game.
1. All i wrote until now was the interlude between missions, but what the missions themselves? It's decent, but tactically speaking, the game feels a bit limited, there isn't so much depth. The limited resources you have (one hero, three squads) is a influence here. And let's not speak about base buildind and teching, or lack of

(that's why i think the tactical part should be more complete, as here we don't have the options and problems and 'fun' found in RTS with bases). As you can imagine, in the end you use the same three or four tactics one and another time. You could say that as you unlock new items and abilites you improve your tactical options, and it's true, but even counting with that, the problem still holds up, imo. With time the depth you have is a bit improved, but nothing spectacular, really you just have a few new variations and permutations of the same three or four tactics you used before.
2. Common repetition in the campaign. Only three enviroments (i think), lots of reusable maps (three missions in the same map, come on!), in fact most maps are played more than one time. And the same types of missions again and again. I still have not advanced enough to feel tired, but i can see how
in a few days i am going to be bored of the same "kill a few squads, kill the boss map" interluded with the same "defense mission of a previous map".
3. Boss fights. They aren't so BAD, but at most, they are bearable. I have more fun fighting the normal troops before each boss, than the boss itself.

To be more orientative if my tastes coincides with you, i woul give the mp a 5-5.5/10 and the sp a 7-7.5/10. So if you liked more the mp than me, perhaps you will like even more the campaign.

PD: There is another little problem i forgot. You can save between missions, but not in the middle of a mission

. Most missions are now more or less short but imo it's still a problem.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am

What do you mean you can't save between missions? When can you save?

ydejin · Post by **ydejin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:52 am

tgb wrote:What do you mean you can't save between missions? When can you save?

I think he means you can't save within a mission. You can definitely save between missions, although AFAIK you can only have one save at a time. It doesn't seem to give you the option to save under different file names.

KiloOhm · Post by **KiloOhm** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:54 am

Excellent write-up - thanks!

Turin Turambar · Post by **Turin Turambar** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:13 am

tgb wrote:What do you mean you can't save between missions? When can you save?

Wops, i didn't wrote that right. Read it again.

ydejin · Post by **ydejin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:18 am

Turin Turambar wrote: PD: There is another little problem i forgot. You can save between missions, but not in the middle of a mission . Most missions are now more or less short but imo it's still a problem.

The missions are a lot longer than I expected. From all the previews it sounded like they were all about 15 minutes long. Past the tutorials I think I've been over 30 minutes for each. I play pretty slowly and deliberately though. I could see them being much faster in coop too.

It really should have had a save game in mission. As far as I can tell there's also no way to abort without having it count against you. I just started a mission when a friend IM'ed me asking if I wanted to play, and I couldn't figure out how to get out without a mission loss

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:38 am

No in-mission saves is finally the deal breaker for me. While half an hour of uninterrupted play time may not seem like a lot, I often don't get that much. I could get in 15 minute missions in a single sitting, but not half an hour or more.

ydejin · Post by **ydejin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:49 am

tgb wrote:No in-mission saves is finally the deal breaker for me. While half an hour of uninterrupted play time may not seem like a lot, I often don't get that much. I could get in 15 minute missions in a single sitting, but not half an hour or more.

I've been playing on "Hard" difficulty but I'm about to restart on "Regular". I'll let you know if that speeds up play and gets me closer to the 15 minute mark.

I started on "Hard" based on developer advice for Beta players (hmm, maybe they meant really good Beta players, not okay but not great Beta players). I've gotten through the first 4-5 missions okay but I'm losing a lot of my troops while getting through each mission. After I saw this post on RelicNews, I decided better to change to "Regular" now, then later:

Brenil on RelicNews.com wrote:I started the campaign out on hard ... it was very playable for the first six hours.... and then it took a nose dive into defeat land. Despite my best efforts, I kept getting my ass handed to me by wave, after wave, after wave, of Eldar troops while my mighty Astartes just melt at the first glance. I understand it is supposed to be more difficult, but as it is now, I cannot imagine even completing the game on Primarch difficulty.

FWIW, I think the 1v1 multiplayer matches usually last 10-20 minutes and the 3v3 usually last 20-25 minutes.

Turin Turambar · Post by **Turin Turambar** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:53 am

ydejin wrote:
tgb wrote:No in-mission saves is finally the deal breaker for me. While half an hour of uninterrupted play time may not seem like a lot, I often don't get that much. I could get in 15 minute missions in a single sitting, but not half an hour or more.
I've been playing on "Hard" difficulty but I'm about to restart on "Regular". I'll let you know if that speeds up play and gets me closer to the 15 minute mark.

I started on "Hard" based on developer advice for Beta players (hmm, maybe they meant really good Beta players, not okay but not great Beta players). I've gotten through the first 4-5 missions okay but I'm losing a lot a fair number of my troops while getting through each mission. After I saw this post on RelicNews, I decided better to change to "Regular" now, then later:

Brenil on RelicNews.com wrote:I started the campaign out on hard ... it was very playable for the first six hours.... and then it took a nose dive into defeat land. Despite my best efforts, I kept getting my ass handed to me by wave, after wave, after wave, of Eldar troops while my mighty Astartes just melt at the first glance. I understand it is supposed to be more difficult, but as it is now, I cannot imagine even completing the game on Primarch difficulty.

Yikes, i hope i can manage better, because i am also chose Hard difficulty (3 of 4, for those without the game). You know how in these last years games are kind of easy for more veteran veteran players(normal is easy, hard is normal, etc), in particular the CoH campaign while it was very good, it was easy easy, thats why i chose hard in DoW2.
I will report my results in a few days.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:11 am

tgb wrote:No in-mission saves is finally the deal breaker for me. While half an hour of uninterrupted play time may not seem like a lot, I often don't get that much. I could get in 15 minute missions in a single sitting, but not half an hour or more.

Idiotic decision by Relic. I've already read about a couple of in-mission crashes.

Jafisob · Post by **Jafisob** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:20 am

Peacedog wrote:
tgb wrote:No in-mission saves is finally the deal breaker for me. While half an hour of uninterrupted play time may not seem like a lot, I often don't get that much. I could get in 15 minute missions in a single sitting, but not half an hour or more.
Idiotic decision by Relic. I've already read about a couple of in-mission crashes.

OMG! No in-mission saves? What a horrid decision. I won't say no sale but I will say no sale until there is a huge sale, in-mission saves are patched in, or my friends strong arm me into buying it so we can play multiplayer.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:54 am

I'm about as sure as I can be about anything that Relic will patch in a save system.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:01 am

When they do I'll reconsider a purchase.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:11 am

Fair enough. I'm about 6 or 7 missions in and the game is a heck of a lot of fun. I have no regrets pre-ordering it on Steam.

Edit: Just confirmed I can pause and give orders in the single player campaign.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:18 am

Yeah, I wasn't concerned about orders-while-paused, since it's in both DoW I and CoH, but since that's a feature I use a LOT, my missions take longer than average to play, and, as previously stated, I don't always have half an hour or more at a stretch.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:19 am

After much wailing and gnashing of teeth over Steam last night, I decided to just let it do its thing overnight and if it was hosed this morning I'd push for the refund. Lo and behold, when I left for work this morning it was at 75% complete - go figure. Hoping to be up and playing by this evening.

I'm really hoping to give the single-player some legs this time around so I may start it on Primarch and see how far I can get. I suspect I'll be bumping it down to hard in short order, but for now I'm curious.

zinckiwi · Post by **zinckiwi** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:15 pm

Only played the first two intro missions, but so far it feels to me like an "action-RTS", in the same way that Diablo et al. are "action-RPGs". I enjoy traditional RPGs and action RPGs both, on their own merits, and I suspect I'll think the same of this.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:30 pm

It holds enough interest for me that I'll get it eventually. On sale. Maybe with an expansion pack. Until then it just seems a little too different for my tastes at $50.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:38 pm

tgb wrote:When they do I'll reconsider a purchase.

Yeah, that's a deal breaker for me. My days of 2+ hour uninterrupted PC gaming have faded. Hell, it's a miracle if I can even get an hour now.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:24 pm

Anyone who's played multiplayer run into an issue with popcap? Seems there's a major issue with people hitting the popcap despite having nowhere near the number of units necessary to hit it.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:33 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
tgb wrote:When they do I'll reconsider a purchase.
Yeah, that's a deal breaker for me. My days of 2+ hour uninterrupted PC gaming have faded. Hell, it's a miracle if I can even get an hour now.

Well, I'm about level 6 now and all of the missions have taken 20-40 minutes each. If I need to stop playing before the end of the mission I hit pause and go do what I must and then come back and finish it. Not saying it's a perfect situation but it works until they add an in-mission save. Given the current drought of good games it's a shame to miss out on this one.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:36 pm

Jow wrote:Anyone who's played multiplayer run into an issue with popcap? Seems there's a major issue with people hitting the popcap despite having nowhere near the number of units necessary to hit it.

Only played one skirmish game and it seemed to be working fine. Are you sure these people weren't missing that some units take up a huge amount of population (one carnifex isn't 1 unit in the popcap) or that some of the special abilites use popcap?

Rawrkan · Post by **Rawrkan** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:46 pm

yeah the few buildings you can construct (webgate, some turrets, etc) use popcap

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:53 pm

Also, the population cap is calculated by each trooper in a squad. So every space marine individual is 5 pop cap. So your basic 3 man tac marine squad is 15 population, add a leader and it's even more.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:18 pm

http://community.dawnofwar2.com/viewtop ... 20&t=10772" target="_blank

Further down the thread, from a developer:

I've reprod this locally, reinforcing tac squads (and possibly other units) is doing something naughty to the pop cap.

I'll keep you posted on the fix.

Another edit, with more info:

Okay, this isn't space marine specific, it's just more noticeable with them.

The bug is, that the last member of a squad you reinforce to get it back to full costs twice as much as it should.

So for tac marines, there are 3 guys at 5 pop cap each. Kill two of them, reinforce the first guy and he correctly costs 5. Reinforce the last guy and he incorrectly costs 10. The same happens with say a squad of slugga boys, but since each guy only costs 2, the last guy will cost 4 and hence it's not nearly as noticeable.

This issue seems to have already been fixed in the most recent build, but we'll need to come up with a data-based solution to get it out without going back through GFWL cert.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:25 pm

Ok, that answers that. I was just surprised because that problem wasn't in the beta so without any details I was wondering if it was just some misunderstanding by new players. I stand corrected.

ydejin · Post by **ydejin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:25 pm

Jow wrote:Further down the thread, from a developer:

I've reprod this locally, reinforcing tac squads (and possibly other units) is doing something naughty to the pop cap.

I really don't understand how this crap is getting through their testing process. Obviously all software has bugs. But this patch not only went through Relic's internal testing it also went through a week-long Microsoft GfWL testing and no one caught it. It seems like a pretty obvious bug to run into. The other one that really surprised me was the Apothecary squad heal bug that showed up in the beta-patch. I can't imagine anyone playing Apothecary doesn't use the squad heal -- that's one of his best powers. And yet they released a patch with no squad healing. Did they not have someone test each of the heroes before releasing the patch?

Turin Turambar · Post by **Turin Turambar** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:06 pm

Turin Turambar wrote:
ydejin wrote:
tgb wrote:No in-mission saves is finally the deal breaker for me. While half an hour of uninterrupted play time may not seem like a lot, I often don't get that much. I could get in 15 minute missions in a single sitting, but not half an hour or more.
I've been playing on "Hard" difficulty but I'm about to restart on "Regular". I'll let you know if that speeds up play and gets me closer to the 15 minute mark.

I started on "Hard" based on developer advice for Beta players (hmm, maybe they meant really good Beta players, not okay but not great Beta players). I've gotten through the first 4-5 missions okay but I'm losing a lot a fair number of my troops while getting through each mission. After I saw this post on RelicNews, I decided better to change to "Regular" now, then later:

Brenil on RelicNews.com wrote:I started the campaign out on hard ... it was very playable for the first six hours.... and then it took a nose dive into defeat land. Despite my best efforts, I kept getting my ass handed to me by wave, after wave, after wave, of Eldar troops while my mighty Astartes just melt at the first glance. I understand it is supposed to be more difficult, but as it is now, I cannot imagine even completing the game on Primarch difficulty.
Yikes, i hope i can manage better, because i am also chose Hard difficulty (3 of 4, for those without the game). You know how in these last years games are kind of easy for more veteran veteran players(normal is easy, hard is normal, etc), in particular the CoH campaign while it was very good, it was easy easy, thats why i chose hard in DoW2.
I will report my results in a few days.

That was fast. Day 14 in the game, a Hive Tyrant violated my white space marine ass. It one hitted my commander

. And now i can't change the difficulty in the middle of the campaign.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:20 pm

I’ve been watching some of the in game footage on YouTube and I notice that the Voiceovers for units are a lot more noticeable than they were in the Beta. Since this was a complaint I had in the beta (units lacking character) can anyone confirm that it applies for all races and not just the space marines?

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:15 pm

There are still crash issues with folks running Vista that apparently haven't been resolved and the devs are searching for patterns. Turns out the biggest culprits are texture memory and effect fidelity - if you're running Vista, bump both settings down to Medium and word is you won't crash again. Hopefully this is a temporary fix while they continue to work on memory optimization.