[POLL] The best RTS of all time

Scanner · Post by **Scanner** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:34 pm

Well, we've seen a good run of new RTS come out and have had time to carefully evaluate them. Do they stand up to the classics?

It's been a while since the topic came up, so maybe it's time to update the Best RTS Of All Time Evar.

To keep things simple, I'll eliminate all the RTTs (Myth, Soldiers HOWW, etc.) with no base building. I guess the Total Wars should slip through, though.

DiscoJason · Post by **DiscoJason** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:38 pm

I sense a move to PC Gaming in General.

Oh, and I vote for R:TW.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:38 pm

I wouldn't consider the Total Wars to be RTS at all. They alternate between TBS and RTT.

That said...damn, this is hard. Starcraft was just awesome. But I enjoyed Homeworld just as much if not more. And I still break out RoN on a regular basis.

Hmm.......

SuperHiro · Post by **SuperHiro** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:41 pm

Starcraft. Often imitated, never duplicated. It's single player campaign is the gold standard by which all RTS's sp campaigns are judged. So good that Blizzard couldn't even top it. Still has a vibrant and active community playing it.

The perfect balance between factions is superb and has yet to be matched. Mechanics so solid that Blizzard stole from itself to make Warcraft III.

Total Annihilation may have won Gamespy's Best RTS Ever award. And mechanically it may be a better game, but so what? Try making a Core/Arm reference and get blank stares. Mention Protoss and Aiur and everyone knows what you're talking about.

It's world and units are so well known that Games Workshop is accused of ripping off Starcraft, instead of the other way around.

Thin_J · Post by **Thin_J** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:44 pm

God I loved Starcraft. At one point I had a Battle.net record with well over 1,500 wins. It was totally outrageous, but I loved that game to death. It's all I played for something to the tune of two years.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:45 pm

Moving to Games in General.

edit: D'oh - don't wanna move it to where it started.

yossar · Post by **yossar** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:21 pm

I had the most fun with Age of Empires/Age of Kings so I voted for those. Never picked up Mythology, though. I think Rise of Nations is the superior game, but there doesn't seem to be much of a multiplayer community for that. And I always preferred the more complex economic management of AoE to Starcraft.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:29 pm

The Starfleet Command series. Though I guess they're more real-time tactical.

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:31 pm

It wasn't flashy, and it certainly wasn't as popular, but Total Annihilation was fiendishly good. It's a shame that some of the wonderful play dynamics from that game haven't been carried forward . . . the joy I felt at finally completing the ridiculously expensive artillery piece that would allow me to shell my opponent's base from my own can't be adequately described in words.

brettmcd · Post by **brettmcd** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:45 pm

Total annihilation, no question about it, noone else is even close. After all those other games collect dust currently on the shelf TA is still on the HD.

Kratz · Post by **Kratz** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:59 pm

I think total war counts... and counts big for not being another cookie cutter piece of crap with no real strategy at all.

And where is the Close Combat series on your list?

Sid Meier's Gettysburg?

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:06 pm

Kratz wrote:I think total war counts... and counts big for not being another cookie cutter piece of crap with no real strategy at all.

Don't get me wrong, I love the TW series to death, but how are they RTS?

The strategic mode is turn based. And the battle mode has no base building or resource gathering, just units that pound the crap out of each other. Isn't that the definition of RTT?

Kaigen · Post by **Kaigen** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:12 pm

Dawn of War being the only RTS that I've enjoyed for the gameplay, it gets my vote easily.

MeSlayer · Post by **MeSlayer** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:13 pm

Myth hands down (other vote)

I might have said Kohan but since you added the 2nd + Axis and Allies I couldnt in good faith choose it : )

But Myth 1, wow, what an awesome game that was.

Much better MP than the stupid infinite unit creation bases of every other RTS ever, in Myth you had x number of units to start the MP game (based on a total number of points / map, each type of unit costing a different amount of points) and that is all you have.

Awesome game, I can't for the life of me figure out why other RTS games havent used that formula (hello, Dawn of War ? HELLO!? :/ ) since

SuperHiro · Post by **SuperHiro** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:00 pm

MeSlayer wrote: Awesome game, I can't for the life of me figure out why other RTS games havent used that formula (hello, Dawn of War ? HELLO!? :/ ) since

Yeah I'm still scratching my head over that one. It just seems to be such a bad design decision (or rather, non-decision). Why waste artistic resources on making buildings? More resource points = better units to be "air dropped". No need for building prereq's. Done and done. Classic game.

I mean christ it makes it even closer to the "Warhammer 40k experience".

Kobra · Post by **Kobra** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:10 pm

Kohan Ahrimans and Immortal Soveriegns are the best, by far.

Scanner · Post by **Scanner** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:44 pm

Kratz wrote:I think total war counts... and counts big for not being another cookie cutter piece of crap with no real strategy at all.

And where is the Close Combat series on your list?

Sid Meier's Gettysburg?

Both of them were originally on the list, along with Warlords Battlecry and Myth, but phpBB2 balked at too many poll options. Sorry.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:00 pm

My favorite strategy game of all time *might* be Myth. But you took that off the list. So I will put old reliable in it's stead. Total Annihilation. It's the only RTS that I consistently play. I never really saw the draw of Starcraft (seemed like the same 'ol, same 'ol to me - even if it was balanced). I played it and thought that I was playing Warcraft II, with THREE races to choose from instead of the lowly two. Meh.

But Total Annihilation? Classic. Although, I suppose we should dock them a few points for that abomination that they followed it up with - TA: Kingdoms. Atrocious.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:50 pm

What - death is not an option?

Zekester · Post by **Zekester** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:02 pm

Probably C&C Generals..

but my personal "all-time best" is Warrior Kings....I just enjoyed the shit out of that game

Eduardo X · Post by **Eduardo X** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:13 pm

Seven Kingdoms 2 kicked much ass, though if R:TW is an RTS game, that wins.

Kratz · Post by **Kratz** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:22 pm

Little Raven wrote:
Kratz wrote:I think total war counts... and counts big for not being another cookie cutter piece of crap with no real strategy at all.
Don't get me wrong, I love the TW series to death, but how are they RTS?

The strategic mode is turn based. And the battle mode has no base building or resource gathering, just units that pound the crap out of each other. Isn't that the definition of RTT?

I'd ask you how those starcraft kinds of games are 'strategy'.

Total War is Real Time Strategy... those other games are real time resource building games... the term RTS has become a bit of a misnomer if it applies to games with no real battle strategy and not to games where that is the whole point... Units that just pound the crap out of each other? That sounds like an 'RTS' to me, not like a strategy game. In RTW or Close Combat, actual battle strategy/tactics matter. In AOE? Not at all - just build a big army faster than the other guy.

What would you call Total War? Close Combat?

EDIT:
Ok... so you guys are calling games like this 'real time tactics'? I see... I still think calling resource games 'strategy' is a bit silly, but... Ok.

Ridah · Post by **Ridah** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:56 pm

My only complaint about the poll is that Starcraft and Warcraft shouldn't be in the same vote. Same company yes, same classic gameplay, no.

My vote went for the Command & Conquer series because I enjoyed the single player campaigns much more, although for multiplayer I would have to give it to Starcraft.

JonathanStrange · Post by **JonathanStrange** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 am

I can't vote! There are too many in the poll I have enjoyed for me to choose just one.

Plus several other OctopusOverlorders mention other good nitpicky "Is that an RTS?" objections as well as bring up fun games like Myth.

For an often justly maligned genre, there are an awful lot of good titles.

Oh, hell, I'll vote RTW even though it may not be a fullblooded RTS.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:46 am

A toddler.

yossar · Post by **yossar** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:18 am

Ridah wrote:My only complaint about the poll is that Starcraft and Warcraft shouldn't be in the same vote. Same company yes, same classic gameplay, no.

Hmm, I would have said the gameplay between the 3 (ok, 2, I never played Warcraft 3) was much more similar than some of the other games that got lumped together in the poll.

McCrank · Post by **McCrank** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:28 am

These best "genre" ever polls are always difficult to me, as naturally, RTS games got better as they went, leading up to the paramount of RTS goodness, which was Rise of Nations. So do I vote Starcraft cause it was a classic that I really enjoyed and held dear to my heart, or do I vote Rise of Nations cause it is the best RTS ever?

warning · Post by **warning** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:45 am

I voted Homeworld. It's one of the few single-player campaigns I ever finished. I don't typically play multiplayer so the story has to grab me. StarCraft? Bored me to tears. Homeworld grabbed me and wouldn't let go.

Homeworld had amazing camera control! I loved setting up battles and zooming in and out to watch them. Years before Dawn of War.

It allowed me to take my salvage ships and convert enemy ships! That feature alone made me say "Whoah!" That added a whole new element of strategy for me.

The graphics! Wow. At the time there was no game that looked like Homeworld. Starcraft looked like ass compared to Homeworld.

The gameplay had this majestic, sweeping flow to it. The battles were epic. The game was hard but well worth it.

And don't even get me started on the music. TA may have had good music but Homeworld has a soundtrack I still listen to!

In my book there's no comparison. Homeworld rocked my socks.

TommyTutone · Post by **TommyTutone** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:23 am

Kohan easily. It had resource gathering/management, but eliminated all of the micromanagement. Instead, it focused on formations, morale, and tactics for victory. Throw in a nice mix of troop types/combinations, and it made for a fantastic replayable game.

The Preacher · Post by **The Preacher** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:47 am

Where's Dune?

And no, C&C is not my Dune.

The Mad Hatter · Post by **The Mad Hatter** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:26 am

I never understood the love for Total Annihilation. It wasn't bad, but as a single player game it got old very quickly. I suppose if multiplayer RTS is your bag than it would make sense.

I voted for Age of Kings/Mythology, with the Warcraft games a close second.

Edited to add - the Total War games may technically be "real time strategy" but they're very different games from the rest listed here. If the only criteria is that it be strategy and not turnbased then the Europa Universalis games should be listed too.

baron calamity · Post by **baron calamity** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:27 am

Herzog Zwei

godhugh · Post by **godhugh** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:06 pm

My vote would go to the Close Combat series, so I chose the "Other" option.

Caine · Post by **Caine** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:35 pm

my first rts was dune 2, followed by warcraft and c&c. never played TA (shocked i know) because i picked up dark reign instead. that was a fun one too. i never tried any of the total war games (i have medieval + exp in the boxes on my shelf). homeworld was great, cataclysm was a solid follow-up, so it makes a hard decision. starcraft is great.

i just finished up act of war, and it was a fun and great looking game. bfme looks nice but has some odd quirks. axis and allies is like a stripped down version of RoN, which is excellent.

damn hard to choose one of the bunch. most of them were just great fun at the time i played them, although a few might be hard to adjust to now.

Arcanis · Post by **Arcanis** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:55 pm

nothing can compare to the fun i had and still have with the *craft series and C&C series me and my roomate normaly play C&C Generals on the lan at least 6 times a week. But i love playing Rome TW also it is absolutely beutiful.

Sterling · Post by **Sterling** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:26 pm

I'd ask you how those starcraft kinds of games are 'strategy'.

Because you can't just build 100 tanks and expect to win. Not in Starcraft, anyway.

To be any good at Starcraft you need to scout your opponent, and counter their strategy. If they mass air, you need to get anti-air. If they have lots of ground troops, you can get tons of marines/firebats, or hold off a bit and try to get siege tanks first. That's a strategic, not tactical choice. There's also the strategy of deciding what/when to go after resource nodes, how much to focus on defense vs offense, etc.

These may be minor considerations compared to the tactical aspect of the game, but they're strategy, and they're important.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:09 pm

Total Annihilation. I'm still waiting for a strategy game that lets me queue up units, actions, reactions and counter attacks like it did. Any game that lets me pre-program a flight of bombers to wipe out pre-selected targets when a specific building gets attacked is automatically the winner.

And, ya, it shone in multiplayer - single player was good but not amazing.

Scanner · Post by **Scanner** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:12 pm

Rowdy wrote:Any game that lets me pre-program a flight of bombers to wipe out pre-selected targets when a specific building gets attacked is automatically the winner.

Didn't realize you could do that. How do you set it up?

is_dead · Post by **is_dead** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:26 pm

Starcraft was awesome, but I only liked the humans, so it’s off the list. Rise of nations is incredible, but a little too repetitive and limited units. C&C generals was fun for a week. Medieval Total War was good but clunky. Total Annihilation was great but by the time I played it, it was old and underwhelming. Warcraft 2 gets my vote.

Oh wait, I thought of it. Ya’ll might think I’m crazy, but I bet the RTS game I spent the most time playing was Total Annihilation Kingdoms!! This game was incredibly under rated. “Slow performance” was the main criticism, but the game had good graphics and a deliberately slow pace. It had a hundred single player missions, and you played a different side each turn. The story was a historical narrative, where a woman would read the story documentary style about the world war going on. And you’d jump into battles taking whatever side would win the battle. There were command queuing and waypoint tactics like in TA. Tactics were fundamental.

But I’m not giving credit to the best aspect; the games slow, atmospheric, sedated, strategic pace. Assassination mission where you go in disguised and then run out. Deception mission where you’re going to meet to join forces against a common enemy, but when you get there they attack you.

I actually played that game to the end, and I never beat the last missions of Starcraft or Warcraft 2.

mori · Post by **mori** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:09 pm

Total Annihilation is the one. I have more hours sunk into that game than any other RTS.