No water....NOPE! ...no water AGAIN!...yes again

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:51 am

One thing then another. I wont bother with other problems in this post.

Took a shower and all was well. I get done and flush the toilet...it doesn't refill....well it does very little then dies half way. So no water. The shower was same as always. Lucky I finished. I came into the front of the house and I smell a burned melted smell. Checked fuses and they are good. I jerked the fuses to it and the water heater. So now its either the well pump or the OLD wire from the fuse box to the pump. Im going to go test it with my multimeter after my pain meds kick in. I have to crawl under the front porch. I may be without water until the beginning of the month. Hope not. Fun...not.

Id joke about burning this place for the insurance and getting a apartment but the damn thing would burn down .

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:59 am

How old is your well pump? Ours died about 6 months after we purchased our house back in 2007, which was a real treat. I think they're only supposed to last 10-15 years, but so much depends on use, the model, and conditions. Wire is easy to replace. Well pump...no so much.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:03 pm

Like 8 or 9 years old. Its not in the well.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:09 pm

I...have never seen a non-submersible well pump. You have weird laws in your state.

Are you looking at the pressure tank and thinking that's the pump? If you've already determined the main breaker is fine, the problem could be with the pressure tank and not the actual pump (where ever that might be). Pressure tanks can stop working when the bladder inside rots or is compromised by rodents (a common occurrence). That should be easier to figure out (pressure tank vs well pump).

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:15 pm

Maybe the line is full of grease.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:49 pm

McNutt wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:15 pm Maybe the line is full of grease.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:46 pm

Pressure tank is fine. Its almost brand new. Wiring is fine . I put the fuses back in and watched the pump. It tried to kick on but just buzzed then click back off and smoke a bunch from the top. Its toast.

Called the well guy. He died 4 years ago but his widow owns it still and the old crew runs it. They will call me back. Bad news is we knew the well guy and could get a discount and payments...not sure about it now.

Ya unsubmerged pumps are jet type. Our well had to be drilled deeper in the big draught about 15 years ago. Its about 200 feet deep.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:53 pm

This one looks exactly like ours. Other than brand.

https://www.pumpproducts.com/sta-rite-s ... rettyPhoto

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:04 pm

That well pump sucks!

Spoiler:

I have inspected hundreds of well installations. I've never seen a non-submersible pump in use.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:05 pm

Large pipe or two from deep well to pump then a small house pipe from pump to home. PVC. Gone through a few pumps in 30 years. the old pumps would lose prime and need to be primed to suck. Of course you need water to prime so that was a catch 22. Now days no priming.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:10 pm

Daehawk wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:46 pm Pressure tank is fine. Its almost brand new. Wiring is fine . I put the fuses back in and watched the pump. It tried to kick on but just buzzed then click back off and smoke a bunch from the top. Its toast.

Called the well guy. He died 4 years ago but his widow owns it still and the old crew runs it. They will call me back. Bad news is we knew the well guy and could get a discount and payments...not sure about it now.

Ya unsubmerged pumps are jet type. Our well had to be drilled deeper in the big draught about 15 years ago. Its about 200 feet deep.

Tell his widow he knew what he was getting into, but it still hurts. That should get you the discount.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 pm

Im betting Trump already called to cheer her up.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:43 pm

Alefroth wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:10 pm
Daehawk wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:46 pm Pressure tank is fine. Its almost brand new. Wiring is fine . I put the fuses back in and watched the pump. It tried to kick on but just buzzed then click back off and smoke a bunch from the top. Its toast.

Called the well guy. He died 4 years ago but his widow owns it still and the old crew runs it. They will call me back. Bad news is we knew the well guy and could get a discount and payments...not sure about it now.

Ya unsubmerged pumps are jet type. Our well had to be drilled deeper in the big draught about 15 years ago. Its about 200 feet deep.
Tell his widow he knew what he was getting into, but it still hurts. That should get you the discount.

Right, because injecting politics into every conceivable aspect of life makes the world a better place. *

* It doesn't, even wnen you do think it's hilarious.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:25 pm

The impeller might be binding a bit. If you can look in at the bottom and see the shaft, you might be able to spin it with a pair of needle nose pliers until its fairly free. I did that almost monthly with the well pump for filling up my koi pond for over two years every time the impeller would bind. Might temporarily give you water at least.

I'd kill the power to the pump temporarily while you're trying to spin the impeller with the needle nose pliers.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:56 pm

Well guy came out and looked at it. Wasn't impressed with the oldness of it all. Said it would be $1500 to get him to start and he wasn't interested in doing it. Its under the front porch in easy reach and access yet he thought it must be on top of a skyscraper. I asked him his age and he says 28 and I told him the guy who installed it was in their mid 60s at the time. Phhtzz.

Seems my best bet is to simply hook to city water but theres a $825 fee for the meter and they wont add it to the bill. I could pay that over time on the monthly bill. Its for the cost of the meter.

Ive contacted United Way, Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, 3 churches, a place that helps with my winter kerosene, my bankruptcy lawyer, and have numbers for a few more places come Monday...which will be my 5th day with no water to drink or flush with.

So ya...life.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:50 pm

http://www.ezwaterwellhandpumps.com/aa_videos.htm

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:57 pm

I was just saying how if I had an old hand pump...wild west style...I could have water. Been thinking. Tomorrow Im going to crack the well head..or should say the cap.....and see how high the water is. If its nearer the top I can cut my old water hose up and try to siphon it out for flushing the toilet and watering the dog at least.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:02 pm

How do you siphon water from a well?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:05 pm

McNutt wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:02 pm How do you siphon water from a well?

Dig a deeper well, duh!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:00 pm

Daehawk wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:57 pm I was just saying how if I had an old hand pump...wild west style...

You could always fall back on a bucket and a rope, older-west style.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:06 pm

Daehawk wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:57 pmIf its nearer the top I can cut my old water hose up and try to siphon it out for flushing the toilet and watering the dog at least.

Did not you not say earlier the well was 200 feet deep? There isn't going to be water at the top, just the hose doing deep (so deep) into the ground. Don't waste your time taking off the cap. What you want is likely at least 175' below the surface.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:11 pm

McNutt wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:02 pm How do you siphon water from a well?

Same as gas from a car...hose, suction. Probably wont work since I wont be able to get the end lower than the water in the well. If not my backup is a bucket and a robe. I hang myself from the tree nearby and kick the bucket into the well to fall.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:21 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:06 pm
Daehawk wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:57 pmIf its nearer the top I can cut my old water hose up and try to siphon it out for flushing the toilet and watering the dog at least.
Did not you not say earlier the well was 200 feet deep? There isn't going to be water at the top, just the hose doing deep (so deep) into the ground. Don't waste your time taking off the cap. What you want is likely at least 175' below the surface.

Nope its there if theres no drought. The first 25 feet or so is like a hand dug part. Its VERY old. Its about 3 feet across and holds water up to about 5 feet from the top. In dryer times that water disappears and from there down its simply a pipe to 200'. I told the wife if the water would stay i could stock catfish

We also have what we cal la wet weather spring beside it. Its all normal yard and driveway until it rains then for a couple days afterwards water runs down the driveway. At first its a small stream then gradually lightens until its gone again. Wets the main road in front of our house.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:22 pm

I don't have my fluid engineering charts handy, but you're not going to siphon water from 175+ feet below ground via manual suction.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:26 pm

Daehawk wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:21 pm Nope its there if theres no drought. The first 25 feet or so is like a hand dug part. Its VERY old. Its about 3 feet across and holds water up to about 5 feet from the top. In dryer times that water disappears and from there down its simply a pipe to 200'. I told the wife if the water would stay i could stock catfish

We also have what we cal la wet weather spring beside it. Its all normal yard and driveway until it rains then for a couple days afterwards water runs down the driveway. At first its a small stream then gradually lightens until its gone again. Wets the main road in front of our house.

This is...unusual. I would not be consuming water from the first 25 feet or so of this well, but you can certainly use it to flush toilets, yes. To have an open column of water that is 200' deep is...beyond what I've ever seen. I'd go so far as to say what you're describing would be illegal in NJ as it doesn't sound like you have a cased well that's been protected from surface contamination with cement.

You're still #1 on my list of OOers I'd like to meet, for what it's worth.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:34 pm

Daehawk wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:11 pmIf not my backup is a bucket and a robe.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:23 pm

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Water-Source ... HwodnTgAyA

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:54 pm

To have an open column of water that is 200' deep is...beyond what I've ever seen.

Lemme try this again...

First 25 feet or less is open...like say a wishing well. Not open open as in open to the sky...just open as in I could climb in if the concrete cap was not on it.Then there is a dirt floor there and looks like a normal dirt ground. From there the rest is simply a pipe...no access. The water fills that top part only and only during normal weather and no drought. If theres a drought or I use tons and tons of water that water goes away and you can look in and see the dirt bottom down there.

And yes the top is capped in concrete. No little cute well house

Its a flat concrete top with a small separate square of heavy ass concrete that is mortared on. I can break the seal and slide that piece over with a long crow bar. Thats the only access into the well itself.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:23 pm

The idea that the "surface water" (i.e that first ~25 or so feet of water in what was likely a hand-dug well) in any way interacts with the drilled well that is located directly under it is problematic. Those two water sources should be completely separate and pumping down the 200' foot well shouldn't in any way impact the hand dug well above it. What that tells me is that there's infiltration between surface water and ground water - and that's not good. What that means in practice is that your well water is likely contaminated with surface runoff. It's good that it has a concrete cap over it (as that keeps out rain), but the fact that water is percolating from the surface soil surrounding the well area into that ~25 foot pit and then mainlining through the dirt floor and into your true well is the issue (for me). I've seen a few hand dug wells in my life, but always under the context of them being abandoned to have a new well (in a different location) drilled into the ground.

Soil is nature's filter. Water that is 175+ feet below the surface is likely hundreds of years old and has been stripped of surface contaminants. Water that is 25 feet deep might only be a few years old and is likely more contaminated.

From your description, this is what I'm imagining (under dry conditions):

EDIT: Thanks for allowing me to talk about something else I know about that isn't a disease or immediately offensive.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:39 pm

Hahaha ya I enjoy chats on other things besides how bad modern times / things / people are.

And yes thats it exactly. Thats how it is on a dry season. Its old and ran dry years ago and he came out and dug it to 200. Said thats the limit and if it didn't work Id need a new well or something. Not sure what he said now. Wife is determined to get city water now. I kinda hate that as theres water right there and its free no matter how much I use. Until this happens . Then city water is always there. Always a trade off I guess. City at this point would be a welcome thing I guess.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:12 am

I can make a well by jetting a pipe down twelve feet into the earth or just dig down four feet and hit water where I am. Do you actually have to cap something you jetted twelve feet into the ground? How would you cap something like that, fill it with concrete? Would you need to?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:33 pm

Pulled the well cap. Took me an hour and broke my back but got one single 5 gal bucket full. Flushed the toilet. Too difficult on a disabled person. Called the fire department and asked them about water. I have no way to store any water..no tank no pool no kiddie pool. So they are looking into how they can help even if its a bunch of 5 gal buckets on my porch. I hope they can help. I may not get water for a LONG time. Wife wants to just move and leave this place.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:06 pm

Daehawk wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:33 pmI have no way to store any water..no tank no pool no kiddie pool. So they are looking into how they can help even if its a bunch of 5 gal buckets on my porch. I hope they can help. I may not get water for a LONG time. Wife wants to just move and leave this place.

Don't forget a typical bathtub should hold between 25 to 45 gallons (or more) of water, which isn't bad in a pinch.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:29 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:06 pm Don't forget a typical bathtub should hold between 25 to 45 gallons (or more) of water, which isn't bad in a pinch.

I would recommend that he takes additional measures to seal the drain in the tub if he decides to store his water there. Most of them eventually leak down the drain within a few days. I'd go so far as to temporarily silicon caulk a cover over the drain.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:44 pm

em2nought wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:29 pm
Anonymous Bosch wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:06 pm Don't forget a typical bathtub should hold between 25 to 45 gallons (or more) of water, which isn't bad in a pinch.
I would recommend that he takes additional measures to seal the drain in the tub if he decides to store his water there. Most of them eventually leak down the drain within a few days. I'd go so far as to temporarily silicon caulk a cover over the drain.

Good point.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:07 pm

Big piece of plastic sheeting over the tub.

It also makes for a good emergency water supply if you know you are going to be out for a few days - lay a heavy (clean) plastic dropcloth over the tub, push it down some, tun on the faucet.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:16 pm

When using the drop bucket and getting nowhere I looked over at the wife and said get the hose and fill it up for me...she moved about a half inch before giving me a look to melt me.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:31 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:44 pm
em2nought wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:29 pm
Anonymous Bosch wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:06 pm Don't forget a typical bathtub should hold between 25 to 45 gallons (or more) of water, which isn't bad in a pinch.
I would recommend that he takes additional measures to seal the drain in the tub if he decides to store his water there. Most of them eventually leak down the drain within a few days. I'd go so far as to temporarily silicon caulk a cover over the drain.
Good point.

A plastic container lid works too. Suction holds it firmly in place and forms a tight seal.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:46 pm

Even if I needed to use the tub that way I have no cash for any of that. Bought the last of the food the other day. Will have more money come the 3rd of Nov. Have to make do until then with what we have.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:13 pm

Has anyone ever had a city water hookup done? I spoke to them on the phone asking for all the info I need. I specifically said "Now is that everything?" And was told yes. Then today someone says to me that they only install TO the meter and not from there to the home itself and Im responsible to get a plumber for that. wth!? Is that true? If so thats more 100s of dollars.