Octopus Overlords

Good news for Daehawk -- a free upgrade might be coming for Win 7 users:

Windows 7 users might finally decide to upgrade soon. Windows Latest today reported that a leaked build of Windows 11 suggests Microsoft plans to offer a free upgrade to the next significant update to the operating system when it debuts.

A caveat: This is based on a configuration package in a leaked build of an operating system that hasn't officially been announced yet. Microsoft's plans could have changed, or it may have planned for the upgrade to be paid all along.

Windows Latest said its claim was "based on the configuration keys found within Pkeyconfig (product key configuration package) in the leaked build of Windows 11." Those keys suggest Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users will be able to upgrade at no cost.

That upgrade path would make sense. Microsoft offers a free update to Windows 10, too, and that promotion is still valid even though it was supposed to end in 2016. Anyone with a valid key for Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 can take advantage of that offer.

I will now open the floor to complaints about change and a commitment to resist.

This is Windows 10 but with new name and start menu.

If support for Win10 is going to end in October 2025, well, I'll be 72 and by then my arthritis will probably be much more of an issue than having to switch OS. I'm sure the EOS will end up being delayed anyway. If Microsoft want folks to switch then they ought to make Half-Life 3 a Win11 exclusive

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:38 am If support for Win10 is going to end in October 2025, well, I'll be 72 and by then my arthritis will probably be much more of an issue than having to switch OS. I'm sure the EOS will end up being delayed anyway. If Microsoft want folks to switch then they ought to make Half-Life 3 a Win11 exclusive

Yeah, at that age, you'll be returning the calls of identity thieves so why bother keeping something current that might protect against such things?

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/2254 ... es-updates

That first video makes me laugh. Their marketing speak mumbo jumbo is so bullshit. They do stuff and change stuff then try to pawn it off as for us the users.....when we dont usually like our shit changed.

"The start menu right in the middle so blah blah blah"........ya right in the middle so it blocks everything when its open.

I installed the MS PC Health Check app and it says that my PC does not meet the hardware requirements for W11. After a few minutes of research, it appears that the problem is that the BIOS Mode is set to Legacy rather than UEFI and secure boot is therefore unsupported.

I guess I've got 4 years to figure out how to change that.

Mine also did not meet the requirement but a simple change in UEFI firmware to enable TPM changed the result.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:35 pm Here's what you're losing if you upgrade to Windows 11

I didn't see anything that bothered me. About the only thing I see that I use is OneNote for Windows 10 and since I already have that installed it will just carry over.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:40 pm I didn't see anything that bothered me. About the only thing I see that I use is OneNote for Windows 10 and since I already have that installed it will just carry over.

It sounds like you can still install it even if you don't. I notice it's specifically called One Note for Windows 10 - maybe they will have an upgraded version for 11?

I am mostly indifferent to this. My gaming PC is over 6 years old. I highly doubt I will upgrade it (and I am not sure if it has TPM). I don't care enough to see if it's there and disabled in the BIOS. My current laptop I figure I will replace before Win 10 updates stop.

I am sure this will be a pain for work but, I am equally sure that we will stay on 10 for our dev laptops a while before upgrading. I assume at some point I will just get a new laptop with 11 on it. Getting 11 into our product I am sure we will delay for a long time. We took forever to get it on 10. LOL. I know my company kept paying for 7 security updates for years and years so we wouldn't have to switch our product over.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:35 pm Here's what you're losing if you upgrade to Windows 11

So... absolutely nothing that I use or expect to, although "Apps also won't be able to customize areas of the Taskbar" may affect exactly one system that I have a skinning app on.

I haven't heard anything terrible yet.

Always keep my Windows upgraded to the latest version because I am super paranoid of hacks. MS is always going to put more focus and work into the latest version and that's the version I want to have.

Lorini wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:44 am Always keep my Windows upgraded to the latest version because I am super paranoid of hacks. MS is always going to put more focus and work into the latest version and that's the version I want to have.

Same here but from what I read about Windows 11, it doesn't support older processors. For Intel, only support coffee lake (8th generation core/2017) or newer processors. For AMD, it is Ryzen 2000 (2018) or newer processors.

So not everyone that want to upgrade can upgrade.

I think this is the first time Microsoft release a new Windows that only support processors that are newer than 3-4 years old.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:43 am

Lorini wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:44 am Always keep my Windows upgraded to the latest version because I am super paranoid of hacks. MS is always going to put more focus and work into the latest version and that's the version I want to have.

Same here but from what I read about Windows 11, it doesn't support older processors. For Intel, only support coffee lake (8th generation core/2017) or newer processors. For AMD, it is Ryzen 2000 (2018) or newer processors.

So not everyone that want to upgrade can upgrade.

I think this is the first time Microsoft release a new Windows that only support processors that are newer than 3-4 years old.

That's unfortunate. I assume they think the cost for supporting the older processors is more than the hit they will take in good will. We'll have to see how this plays out.

That is an extremely strange restriction to put on an OS. They are going to have to keep doing security updates for 10 for a LONG time with that restrictive requirements. (I am sure they know this fully well.)

I ran Microsoft's PC Health Check and my 3-year-old PC can't run Win11 because "TPM 2.0 is a requirement for running Windows 11. We recommend that you check if TPM 2.0 is enabled." The Learn More button doesn't tell me how to do that, and suggests that I buy a new computer.

Unless there's a workaround that doesn't involve motherboard surgery, I'll be stuck running Win 10 until support ends in four years. My PC runs great and I'm not going to replace it because of some 3-letter acronym that I've never heard of before.

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:04 pm I ran Microsoft's PC Health Check and my 3-year-old PC can't run Win11 because "TPM 2.0 is a requirement for running Windows 11. We recommend that you check if TPM 2.0 is enabled." The Learn More button doesn't tell me how to do that, and suggests that I buy a new computer.

Unless there's a workaround that doesn't involve motherboard surgery, I'll be stuck running Win 10 until support ends in four years. My PC runs great and I'm not going to replace it because of some 3-letter acronym that I've never heard of before.

Me too. I've always stayed with the older OS until it reaches EOS.

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:04 pm I ran Microsoft's PC Health Check and my 3-year-old PC can't run Win11 because "TPM 2.0 is a requirement for running Windows 11. We recommend that you check if TPM 2.0 is enabled." The Learn More button doesn't tell me how to do that, and suggests that I buy a new computer.

Unless there's a workaround that doesn't involve motherboard surgery, I'll be stuck running Win 10 until support ends in four years. My PC runs great and I'm not going to replace it because of some 3-letter acronym that I've never heard of before.

Go to the UEFI firmware settings and find way to enable TPM. TPM 2.0 was released at 2014 so it is very likely your PC support TPM 2.0 and just need to change UEFI firmware setting to turn it on.

Instruction on how to enter UEFI firmware settings:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-ente ... ows-10-pcs

If you want to know more about TPM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

BTW, all new Windows 10 PC starting from 2016 support TPM 2.0, it is a requirement that Microsoft set. So all PC manufacturer of new Windows 10 PC since 2016 support TPM 2.0 but not all of them enabled it by default.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:15 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:04 pm I ran Microsoft's PC Health Check and my 3-year-old PC can't run Win11 because "TPM 2.0 is a requirement for running Windows 11. We recommend that you check if TPM 2.0 is enabled." The Learn More button doesn't tell me how to do that, and suggests that I buy a new computer.

Unless there's a workaround that doesn't involve motherboard surgery, I'll be stuck running Win 10 until support ends in four years. My PC runs great and I'm not going to replace it because of some 3-letter acronym that I've never heard of before.

Go to the UEFI firmware settings and find way to enable TPM. TPM 2.0 was released at 2014 so it is very likely your PC support TPM 2.0 and just need to change UEFI firmware setting to turn it on.

Instruction on how to enter UEFI firmware settings:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-ente ... ows-10-pcs

If you want to know more about TPM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

BTW, all new Windows 10 PC starting from 2016 support TPM 2.0, it is a requirement that Microsoft set. So all PC manufacturer of new Windows 10 PC since 2016 support TPM 2.0 but not all of them enabled it by default.

Thanks Vic, I'll dive into that tomorrow. Or the day after. Or soon, anyway. I hope I can just twiddle a switch.

I think this article from the Verge does a good job explaining the TPM requirement.

Edit: Sadly, even though I got my computer on 12/27/2016, I don't have TPM from what I can find and I'm running a 6th gen Intel chip, so I'm out of luck on two fronts. Was hoping to upgrade in another year or two anyway, but still a bummer.

Their minimum CPU requirement is the more restrictive. There is NO WAY they will be able to only provide security updates for 4 more years. Businesses will riot against them. There are too many connected products on Win 10 out there which have no path to Win 11. I doubt even MS thinks they will stop providing updates after 4 years.

I will eventually check to be sure, but I doubt more than one or two of the PCs in the house are new enough to meet the CPU requirements.

Make that one PC.

Both of my kids' computers, my laptop, the family TV PC, and the PC I have in the bedroom are all going to become security risks in four years, all because they have older CPUs, despite running just fine. There is no way I could replace three PCs and two laptops in four years.

With the shortages that are going on, Microsoft picked one hell of a time to for force obsolescence on older hardware. I'll just have to be on of the late adopters and hope that the kids screwing around on the internet don't compromise the entire network.

A lot can change in 4 years. Some older computers may allow you to tweak the BIOS to activate TPM. Even if they don't support TPM 2.0, as long as the motherboard does, you can add the TPM module separately.

The limited CPU support seems odd given that the generic requirement is fairly anemic, requiring just 2 cores and a 1 GHz clock. Given that there were reports that the leaked W11 build was running on systems that didn't meet the requirements, I wonder if W11 will actually run on older CPUs but without formal support by MS.

From PC Gamer, Windows 11 demands TPM 2.0 and here's what that means for you

Plenty of users have had their excitement about Windows 11 damped by confusion surrounding its requirement for TPM 2.0 support. Running the Windows 11 PC Health Check (which has now been updated to report why your machine has failed the test) has seen users confused that their new and otherwise capable machine apparently can't run Microsoft's next OS.

This confusion certainly hasn't been helped by Microsoft itself which had system requirements listed online, detailing a soft and hard floor for Window 11. That was basically the difference between being able to install and being advised not to.

But that has been corrected now to state that the only way you're going to be able to get Windows 11 on your home PC is if it's got specific TPM 2.0 support.

It's not so much the TPM as the apparent blacklisting of CPUs regardless of whether they have TPM. My laptop has TPM 2.0, but isn't eligible because the CPU isn't on the approved list. If they're blocking CPUs older than four years old, it doesn't matter if they have TPM or not.

Strangely Microsoft allow people that are in the insider program (existing members before June 25th) to upgrade to Windows 11 on computers that don't meet the requirements but then they can't update to final version of Windows 11.

So the limitation is likely to be Microsoft forcing people to upgrade with an artificial hardware check. Windows 11 itself can run on older hardware.

“Plenty of users have had their excitement about Windows 11 dampened“

Who are these people and why are they excited (specifically) about Windows 11?

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:15 pm “Plenty of users have had their excitement about Windows 11 dampened“

Who are these people and why are they excited (specifically) about Windows 11?

I think I'm one of them. The excited part, not the dampened part.

I'm one of those users that always upgrade to new Windows. I am one of the few users that upgraded to Windows Me. I also upgraded to Windows Vista. Upgraded to Windows 8.

I also did Me, but skipped Vista and 8. I'm not an early adopter. I upgrade for security, or when the reviews are consistently good.

And now a word from our sponsors:

The intention of today’s post is to acknowledge and clarify the confusion caused by our PC Health Check tool, share more details as to why we updated the system requirements for Windows 11 and set the path for how we will learn and adjust. Below you will find changes we are making based on that feedback, including ensuring we have the ability for Windows Insiders to install Windows 11 on 7th generation processors to give us more data about performance and security, updating our PC Health check app to provide more clarity, and committing to more technical detail on the principles behind our decisions. With Windows 11, we are focused on increasing security, improving reliability, and ensuring compatibility. This is what drives our decisions.

I think they may greatly regret announcing (more than once) that Win 10 would be the "final" version of Windows. I have a feeling they are going to keep doing security updates longer than they want to - or have numerous lawsuits filed against them.

Gates also said he saw no reason to get beyond 512K memory yet here we are.

Microsoft wrote:With Windows 11, we are focused on increasing security, improving reliability, and ensuring compatibility. This is what drives our decisions.

What made you start now?

strongly tempted to dump Windows for good in favor of a Linux gaming setup. it's not like i play that many mainstream 'AAA' games to begin with - it seems entirely possible now. (guess MSFS 2020 runs decently/ok-ish, but has a big graphical performance hit : https://www.protondb.com/app/1250410 )

Lorini wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:25 pm Gates also said he saw no reason to get beyond 512K memory yet here we are.

It was 640K, and there seems to be no evidence that he ever actually said it. Gates has not only denied making the statement, he argues that he took the exact opposite position.

The '640K' quote won't go away -- but did Gates really say it?

Here's the legend: at a computer trade show in 1981, Bill Gates supposedly uttered this statement, in defense of the just-introduced IBM PC's 640KB usable RAM limit: "640K ought to be enough for anybody."

Gates himself has strenuously denied making the comment. In a newspaper column that he wrote in the mid-1990s, Gates responded to a student's question about the quote: "I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time." Later in the column, he added, "I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again."

Gates, who is retiring from his day-to-day role at Microsoft Corp. on June 30, also insisted in a 2001 interview with U.S. News & World Report that he hadn't made the comment. "Do you realize the pain the industry went through while the IBM PC was limited to 640K? The machine was going to be 512K at one point, and we kept pushing it up," he told the magazine. "I never said that statement — I said the opposite of that."

Decided to upgrade to Windows 11. Nvidia Broadcast stopped working correctly (error message about microphone everytime it first loaded and nothing I can change in the app solved that problem) and reinstalled it without first uninstalled it didn't help. Also unable to uninstall it.

Other than that, there were a RGB LED related driver (msio64.sys) for Patriot Memory and an Asus driver (asIo.sys) that are not compatible with Memory Isolation feature in Windows 11. Didn't get the error message with Memory Isolation feature on Windows 10. Had a problem with a driver from Steelseries GG application that stopped Memory Isolation in Windows 10 but not those two drivers. Unlike in Windows 10 where problematic driver stopped Memory Isolation from being enabled. Windows 11 enables Memory Isolation but show error message that those two drivers failed to load. You can still turned off Memory Isolation in Windows 11 but I like to have that feature on.

To fix the Nvidia Broadcast problem, I had to restore back to Windows 10. The process took a very long time with totally blank black screen. I thought the PC freezed and I forced the PC off twice (don't be stupid and do this like me). After giving up of trying to do anything, I just leave it running with blank screen and noticed after a while, the PC will reboot and then back to blank screen again several times. Eventually it booted back into Windows 10.

After that I uninstalled NVidia Broadcast, uninstalled All Patriot memory related stuff (I don't have Patriot Memory in my PC). Uninstalled all Asus applications that I can uninstall.

With those preparation, I upgraded to Windows 11 again for the second time. This time error/warning message about msio64.sys was gone but still had problem with asIo.sys. I got rid of the error by searching the C: drive for asIo.sys and delete that. After that no more error message after rebooting.

With Nvidia Broadcast uninstalled in Windows 10, I reinstalled NVidia Broadcast in Windows 11. That seemed to solve the problem. No more error during loading of NVidia Broadcast.

Now about the Windows 11 UI. Live Tile is gone. Anything you pinned to the Live Tile in Windows 10 doesn't appear in Windows 11. So to make Windows 11 Start Menu work like what I had previously. I had to repin all the applications that I want to be able to find faster. The pinned area of the new UI worked closer to how apps appear on home pages on iOS and iPadOS. You pinned all you want and if the page is full, it'll create the next page. To get to the next page, you scroll down. But not like in iOS, you can't have a page that isn't full. You can't have all your favorite applications in the first page then the rest in second page. You have to fill the first page before the next application will be created on the second page. So it is probably not like home pages on iOS but it is one long page that you can scroll down to the next sections.

After doing all that, the Windows 11 Start Menu worked okay for me. I still need to get used to it but for now I'm happy with it. Still made mistake of trying to click left bottom corner to open Start Menu but now it is located in the center section of the taskbar. Probably going to take a while for me to stop doing that since Start Menu was always on the bottom left for me since several decades ago.

Another thing I noticed is that application window's corners are now rounded.

Good thing about Windows 11 so far is that HDR seem to work much better now. The desktop color is no longer look strange to me compare to when in SDR. Windows 11 also has AutoHDR feature. Back in Windows 10, I tried to enable HDR in Windows but after a few days, I turned them off since they're not that useful. Only Netflix and a few games that HDR worked. In some games that have HDR, the color was bad. My monitor also doesn't have good HDR. With Windows 11, now I leave it on but since it is only less than one day, I don't know if I'll leave it on or not. Maybe after several days, I'll find flaw with the HDR and then turn it off but so far no problem with the HDR.

I heard that 77% of PCs aren't capable of running Windows 11. Maybe this is an attempt to jump start a torpid market where people are getting by with old machines?

I hope my 6-month old laptop will run it, but keep in mind; every other Windows major release is a failure. Think Vista or Windows 8. The OS needs to really up the user experience with new hardware to be successful. Since my laptop wasn't designed for it, even if it can run it, I can't imagine it will run it well.