[Netflix] The Sandman

[Smoove_B]

I want to believe this is going to be good...

[hepcat]

That looks fantastic.

They really captured the look, I’ll say that much.

[Smoove_B]

Indeed - that teaser looks like it has imagery lifted straight from the comic book pages.

I really, really want this to be good. It's easily one of my most favorite stories so expectations are high. The fact that Gaiman is directly involved give me hope.

[hepcat]

In an interesting bit of Sandman related news, Gaiman’s Dead Boy Detective Agency, who were just featured in an episode of the always fantastic Doom Patrol series on HBO Max, are getting a pilot order from that same network.

The characters actually premiered in Sandman and are sort of a ghost version of The Hardy Boys if they had been raised in English boarding schools.

[Smoove_B]

There's probably like 10 shows worth of spin-off material in the Sandman comics, hell, they did six seasons with Lucifer. That's an interesting one I didn't anticipate seeing either. I think I have a run of the Dead Boy Detective stand alones, it's all kind of a blur. Here's hoping they'll now help fund my retirement.

[hepcat]

August 5th, people

[Smoove_B]

That's awesome. I think I've read the entire run like 4 or 5 times at this point and every time I do, I pick up on something else I'd missed. I have such high expectations for this show...

[hepcat]

My first choice for Sandman would have been Tig Notaro...but I've been saying that for everything the last year or so.

[Smoove_B]

Alternatively - have Tig Notaro tell her story about Taylor Dayne in episode 4 of The Sandman.

[hepcat]

Well, now I have to go find that....

[Smoove_B]

(heavy breathing intensifies)

[hepcat]

I am very, very pleased they're sticking to the aesthetics of the graphic novels.

[Smoove_B]

Oh boy oh boy

[$iljanus]

Damn, I was just transfixed by that Sandman clip. August 5th can't come soon enough!

[stimpy]

Exhibit A as to why I never let reviews influence whether I watch something or not.....





Thanks, but I'll be my own judge during a nice long weekend binge.

[Zaxxon]

Someone please tell me whether to watch this. Haven't read the comics yet.

[Isgrimnur]

The wife is currently into episode 4 and hasn't come up for air, so she's enjoying it.

[Smoove_B]

I only made it through 3 episodes last night, but I'm enjoying it. I was having a hard time imagining how they were going to do it, quite frankly, but I'm left impressed with the translation. To be up front, I have signed Sandman art hanging on my walls so to suggest I'm a fan is a bit of an understatement.

I am curious to see how it plays for people that have no previous experience as I've seen quite a few references that are just dropped without comment - which is fine because that's how the comic reads as well. There's so much stuff you miss an only pick up on subsequent re-reading, at least, that's how it was for me.

It is slow to start, which mirrors the comic exactly. The actual story in the comic doesn't really begin until somewhere in middle teen issue number, which I think is the final 3rd of this series (based on titles). When it was originally released, it was written more like a one-shot as he didn't know if it would be given the green light to continue. So it's a bit self contained and doesn't really balloon out until after that point.

I think it's best when you think of the whole thing as a story universe and for now, we're seeing the story of Morpheus. That's not always the case but everything is through his lens, for now.

Regardless, the casting has been amazing so far. Will it replace the comic? Doubtful. Will it be a viable interpretation? Feels likely. All I know is that after 3 episodes, I am hoping they manage to finish the entire story's arc.

[Skinypupy]

I know nothing about the comics, but the trailers have looked pretty cool. I’ll give it a look this weekend.

[Smoove_B]

Oh, and another thing - the comics (when they were written) had a connection to the DC universe. There were characters and threads directly tied to established DC cannon as a way to "hook" into the DC universe (at the time). For this show, all of those connections have been changed:

Much of those connections and references, however, have either been significantly altered or stripped away entirely from the live-action adaptation of “The Sandman.” For example, in the graphic novel, the villain John Dee (David Thewlis) is living within Arkham Asylum, Gotham City’s infamous prison for the criminally insane, and his desiccated, skeletal appearance bears a strong resemblance to the DC villain Doctor Destiny — a major foe of the Justice League. On the show, however, John is living in a nondescript mental institution, and has the appearance of a normal man.

Meanwhile, the DC warlock and occult detective John Constantine, who has an extended interaction with Morpheus in the comics, has been gender-flipped to Johanna Constantine (Jenna Coleman), and has a similar (though tweaked) backstory from the legacy character.

As someone that didn't have a strong connection to the DC comic universe when I read The Sandman originally, it wasn't something that impacted my ability to enjoy the story. From the man himself:

“‘The Sandman’ itself started out in the DC Universe, the comic, and then it just sort of wound up wandering off into its own place,” the author tells Variety. “Its world joined up more and more with our world and became less and less a world in which costumed crime fighters fly around and so on, which meant that by the time ‘The Sandman’ finished, it had its own aesthetic which really wasn’t the DC Universe anymore.”

Gaiman was also eager to avoid stoking any unintended expectations that “The Sandman” would in fact link up in some meaningful way with other DC properties, especially since the graphic novel’s DC references date back to a much earlier (and largely defunct) comic book era.

“We didn’t want a TV show where you felt that you had to have read a whole bunch of comics published in 1988 and 1989 to understand what was going on,” he said. Having Doctor Destiny appeared on the show could lead fans to wonder (loudly on the internet), are the Justice League going to show up too?

I guess my whole point with this is that it never was (and still isn't) a DC superhero comic book story.

[A nonny mouse]

Really do not know anything about the Novel or character, but the kid and i are interested. I had not looked into casting or anything but you had me at:

For example, in the graphic novel, the villain John Dee (David Thewlis)

Definite in.

For me, David Thewlis is Hepcat’s Mads Mikkelsen.

[Smoove_B]

He uh...plays an important part in the story arc for this current season, so yeah - enjoy.

[Jaymann]

And here I thought it was about that secondary Spiderman villain in the striped shirt.

[Smoove_B]

Wrong universe, think instead of DC, then get super confused.

[Max Peck]

If I understand the premise of the Dreaming, it should technically be possible to have a DC/Marvel mash-up, with a little Wizard of Oz and John Carter of Mars tossed in for good measure.

[Smoove_B]

The Dreaming is setting/world/universe agnostic, yes. The only thing stopping it would be the most powerful force ever unleashed - IP lawyers.

I'm now on #6 out of 10 and continuing to enjoy the hell out of it. Hopefully the rumors of a second season are correct as we'd be seeing some of the most memorable storytelling and writing to happen in the last 40 years.

Things start to pick up in episodes #4 and #5, but #6 is such a great translation of the comic. Overall I'm still quite impressed with how you can see it was clearly inspired by the comics but they don't limit themselves or forget that it's a different medium. Episode #4 was epic to read in the comic and I think they managed to offer an inspiring interpretation. Gwendolyn Christie as Lucifer in particular I thought was excellent but overall I continue to be impressed with the casting - it feels spot on.

[Jaymann]

That episode in the diner was like something out of the Twilight Zone.

[ImLawBoy]

I'm 2 episodes in and digging it so far. Going back to the DC link, in the first volume of the comic Martian Manhunter makes an appearance - I assume that's right out of the show.

[Smoove_B]

I'm 2 episodes in and digging it so far. Going back to the DC link, in the first volume of the comic Martian Manhunter makes an appearance - I assume that's right out of the show.

Yes - all DC connections have been removed.

That episode in the diner was like something out of the Twilight Zone.

Keep going! The story is starting to unfold and will continue to escalate...

[Max Peck]

The Sound of Her Wings (episode 6) is amazing.

[Blackhawk]

I've watched the trailer a couple of times, and... I have no idea what this is about. Is the whole thing just layered metaphor and symbolism? Or is there a more comprehensible plotline? I don't mean that as mockery - I just have trouble with dense metaphor, and the trailer just left me confused.

[Smoove_B]

No, it's definitely a cohesive story. It's actually really focused for this season because of the reasons I mentioned earlier - when he originally wrote it, there was no promise or guarantee of a future run. So it's quite self-contained for the ~16 issues (which is what S1 covers, mostly) with the thinking that was all he was getting. It's was only after the overwhelming response that he was able to expand it out into what he originally wanted, thankfully.

If you have even a casual knowledge of religion, mythology, literature, world history, etc... you're going to pick up on so many things that have been layered into the story telling. It's downright amazing, quite frankly. And that's why re-reading it has been so rewarding - things I missed or things I've learned in 25+ years, I'm still seeing for the first time being referenced in the original comic.

Regardless, what's happening in S1 is world building - you're learning about who the Sandman is and what has happened in the universe overall. There's conflict related to him and things that need to be done as a result of what happens in the first episode - that's pretty much the arc for this first season. While doing stuff, you get more world building and learn a bit more about bigger picture things happening, but mainly it's a way to introduce him as a character - to understand the basics of who he is and what his role is. It's not an origin story by any means either - you learn through his actions, attitudes, flashbacks, etc... the type of character he is...

[hepcat]

I am absolutely loving it so far. The actor playing Dream is perfectly cast. His voice is just what I imagined it would be from the graphic novels.

Granted, I’m only one episode in. But I am definitely hooked.

For me, David Thewlis is Hepcat’s Mads Mikkelsen.

Big fan of Thewlis since he made it big with Naked. He elevates everything he does.

[Smoove_B]

I didn't realize (until watching this show) that Thewlis was the voice (and visual inspiration) of for the Shame Wizard in Big Mouth.

Again, it really picks up in Episode #4 and having just finished #8 I'm already sad it will be over soon. I absolutely agree the actor playing the Sandman was perfectly cast - both look and sound.

[Blackhawk]

No, it's definitely a cohesive story. It's actually really focused for this season because of the reasons I mentioned earlier - when he originally wrote it, there was no promise or guarantee of a future run. So it's quite self-contained for the ~16 issues (which is what S1 covers, mostly) with the thinking that was all he was getting. It's was only after the overwhelming response that he was able to expand it out into what he originally wanted, thankfully.

If you have even a casual knowledge of religion, mythology, literature, world history, etc... you're going to pick up on so many things that have been layered into the story telling. It's downright amazing, quite frankly. And that's why re-reading it has been so rewarding - things I missed or things I've learned in 25+ years, I'm still seeing for the first time being referenced in the original comic.

Regardless, what's happening in S1 is world building - you're learning about who the Sandman is and what has happened in the universe overall. There's conflict related to him and things that need to be done as a result of what happens in the first episode - that's pretty much the arc for this first season. While doing stuff, you get more world building and learn a bit more about bigger picture things happening, but mainly it's a way to introduce him as a character - to understand the basics of who he is and what his role is. It's not an origin story by any means either - you learn through his actions, attitudes, flashbacks, etc... the type of character he is...

Thanks. When TV series have an episode that is a character's dream, or the character is in a coma, or the other characters 'go into' a characters head, or they're having visions or drug hallucinations - episodes often full of metaphor and symbolism - I usually end up completely lost and bored, with no idea what's going on. Hell, even if they're awake and are just hinting about things that are going on I'm usually oblivious. It's one of the joys of having an autistic brain that interprets everything in literal terms. A rose is a flower, not an emotion, dammit!

The trailer made it look like the entire show would play out that way.

[Zaxxon]

Whelp, I ordered the book compilation of issues #1-20. Gonna crack that open before starting the show.

[hepcat]

No, it's definitely a cohesive story. It's actually really focused for this season because of the reasons I mentioned earlier - when he originally wrote it, there was no promise or guarantee of a future run. So it's quite self-contained for the ~16 issues (which is what S1 covers, mostly) with the thinking that was all he was getting. It's was only after the overwhelming response that he was able to expand it out into what he originally wanted, thankfully.

If you have even a casual knowledge of religion, mythology, literature, world history, etc... you're going to pick up on so many things that have been layered into the story telling. It's downright amazing, quite frankly. And that's why re-reading it has been so rewarding - things I missed or things I've learned in 25+ years, I'm still seeing for the first time being referenced in the original comic.

Regardless, what's happening in S1 is world building - you're learning about who the Sandman is and what has happened in the universe overall. There's conflict related to him and things that need to be done as a result of what happens in the first episode - that's pretty much the arc for this first season. While doing stuff, you get more world building and learn a bit more about bigger picture things happening, but mainly it's a way to introduce him as a character - to understand the basics of who he is and what his role is. It's not an origin story by any means either - you learn through his actions, attitudes, flashbacks, etc... the type of character he is...

Thanks. When TV series have an episode that is a character's dream, or the character is in a coma, or the other characters 'go into' a characters head, or they're having visions or drug hallucinations - episodes often full of metaphor and symbolism - I usually end up completely lost and bored

VR crap in science fiction does that to me mostly. Except I’m usually just bored. I think it’s because the stakes seem far less important when you’re in a dream or in virtual reality. It’s often a lazy way to convey things a good writer could do in real life, albeit less directly.

But Dream and the Endless are very real in The Sandman, and the stakes are very high.

[Smoove_B]

Whelp, I ordered the book compilation of issues #1-20. Gonna crack that open before starting the show.

You're going to be amazed that some of the scenes in the show are shot-for-shot recreations of comic panels. It's fantastic.

I don't think it will be in S1, but when we hit S2 (and you read in issue #19) "A Dream of a Thousand Cats", I suspect the entire internet is going to explode - similar to when casual viewers saw the Red Wedding for the first time on the GoT TV series.

[Smoove_B]

Thanks. When TV series have an episode that is a character's dream, or the character is in a coma, or the other characters 'go into' a characters head, or they're having visions or drug hallucinations - episodes often full of metaphor and symbolism - I usually end up completely lost and bored, with no idea what's going on. Hell, even if they're awake and are just hinting about things that are going on I'm usually oblivious. It's one of the joys of having an autistic brain that interprets everything in literal terms. A rose is a flower, not an emotion, dammit!

The trailer made it look like the entire show would play out that way.

No, like hepcat said the overwhelming majority of the story takes place in the waking world. And different dimensions of time and space. There are sequences that happen in the Dreaming (where the Sandman resides) and some in people's dreams but the dreams aren't being used to convey deeper meaning, at least as something critical you need to interpret immediately.

[hepcat]

Episode 2

Spoiler:

Squeeee….Cain and Abel!