[Film] Star Wars Phase Four

[Isgrimnur]

Guardian

Two new Star Wars films are to go into production, it has been announced, with more details revealed of a third to follow, as the series’ maker Lucasfilm appears to be close to ending the hiatus since the 2019 release of Star Wars: Episode IX – The Rise of Skywalker.

Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy made the announcement at a Star Wars Celebration event at the ExCeL centre in London.

The two new films will be overseen by the James Mangold, the director of Logan, and Dave Filoni, the co-creator of The Mandalorian TV series and director of the 2008 computer animated feature Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Kennedy said that Mangold’s movie will “tell the tale of the first Jedi to wield the Force and harness it as a liberating power in an era of chaos and oppression”, while Filoni’s film is about “the escalating war between the Imperial Remnant and the fledgling New Republic” and will “close out the interconnected stories told in The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, Ahsoka, and other Disney+ series”.

The third film to be announced, a project to be directed by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, has been known about for some time, but appears to have been dogged by changes of direction and staff departures. Obaid-Chinoy’s film will take place 15 years after The Rise of Skywalker and feature Daisy Ridley returning in the role of Rey; it will “tell the story of rebuilding the New Jedi Order and the powers that rise to tear it down”. Lucasfilm recently announced that Peaky Blinders’ Steven Knight had replaced Damon Lindelof and Justin Britt-Gibson as writers on that film.

[Brian]

...replaced Damon Lindelof...

Sounds better already.

[Daehawk]

At this time I have no interest in returning to a theater for a star wars film.

[Rumpy]

Do we really need more Rey at this point given how middling the ST was? I would think Disney would want to try to distance themselves from further controversy. At this point, I pretty much feel like there's not much left to be told of Rey anyway as they drove the nail into the coffin.

[El Guapo]

Do we really need more Rey at this point given how middling the ST was? I would think Disney would want to try to distance themselves from further controversy. At this point, I pretty much feel like there's not much left to be told of Rey anyway as they drove the nail into the coffin.

I don't care too much, although unless they're going to wipe away the ST as canon (and I don't think that's something they would consider) then if you're telling the story of rebuilding the Jedi Order post ep. 9 you're going to have to include Rey in some respect.

Would they have been better off just taking this approach for Episode 7 when they would've had Mark Hamill / Luke Skywalker rebuilding the order? Sure, but we are where we are.

[Rumpy]

I dunno, they could make a post RoS movie without Rey by setting it later into the timeline from someone new looking in and rebuilding the remnants, which I think would be far more interesting. Unfortunately, I feel they rather hobbled themselves with Rey and didn't leave her much of a legacy worth building on. I don't feel like we knew more at the end than we did going in.

[Kurth]

Do we really need more Rey at this point given how middling the ST was? I would think Disney would want to try to distance themselves from further controversy. At this point, I pretty much feel like there's not much left to be told of Rey anyway as they drove the nail into the coffin.

I don't care too much, although unless they're going to wipe away the ST as canon (and I don't think that's something they would consider) then if you're telling the story of rebuilding the Jedi Order post ep. 9 you're going to have to include Rey in some respect.

Would they have been better off just taking this approach for Episode 7 when they would've had Mark Hamill / Luke Skywalker rebuilding the order? Sure, but we are where we are.

I'm sure it's obvious, but what is ST?

Also, I like Rey. That is all.

[Rumpy]

Sequel Trilogy. Thought that was pretty much the accepted way to refer to it.

[naednek]

Do we really need more Rey at this point given how middling the ST was? I would think Disney would want to try to distance themselves from further controversy. At this point, I pretty much feel like there's not much left to be told of Rey anyway as they drove the nail into the coffin.

I don't care too much, although unless they're going to wipe away the ST as canon (and I don't think that's something they would consider) then if you're telling the story of rebuilding the Jedi Order post ep. 9 you're going to have to include Rey in some respect.

Would they have been better off just taking this approach for Episode 7 when they would've had Mark Hamill / Luke Skywalker rebuilding the order? Sure, but we are where we are.

I'm sure it's obvious, but what is ST?

Also, I like Rey. That is all.

Thank you. I'm like wtf is ST.

[coopasonic]

Do we really need more Rey at this point given how middling the ST was? I would think Disney would want to try to distance themselves from further controversy. At this point, I pretty much feel like there's not much left to be told of Rey anyway as they drove the nail into the coffin.

I don't care too much, although unless they're going to wipe away the ST as canon (and I don't think that's something they would consider) then if you're telling the story of rebuilding the Jedi Order post ep. 9 you're going to have to include Rey in some respect.

Would they have been better off just taking this approach for Episode 7 when they would've had Mark Hamill / Luke Skywalker rebuilding the order? Sure, but we are where we are.

I'm sure it's obvious, but what is ST?

Also, I like Rey. That is all.

Same and Same.

Now I may not have really loved the last two movies, but daddy issues aside, I think Rey has lots of room to grow and be explored as a character.

[Daehawk]

I dont dislike Rey. I Dont really remember the new trilogy at all really lol. It was fast and hollow.

[Zarathud]

Rey talking to force ghost Luke about the problems of founding a Jedi order? Make it so.

I’m also betting on Grogu appearing at the Jedi Temple.

[Holman]

Just a random thought on Ep IX, since this is the most recent thread:

Why in the fuck did they go with Palpatine physically cloning himself when the counterpoint of a dark-side force-ghost afterlife was *right there*??

Connecting the light-side version (Qui Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin) to the dark would have been so much more thematically interesting, especially when Luke is busy rejecting the whole project as flawed at the same time.

[Daveman]

Lucasfilm recently announced that Peaky Blinders’ Steven Knight had replaced Damon Lindelof and Justin Britt-Gibson as writers on that film.

"THIS SENATE IS UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT... BY ORDER OF THE JEDI FOOKIN COUNCIL!"

[Rumpy]

Why in the fuck did they go with Palpatine physically cloning himself when the counterpoint of a dark-side force-ghost afterlife was *right there*??

Not to get into it too much, but yeah I really didn't like that. The end result felt lazy. They had so much opportunity to build up on a villain for Rey's own era, but they didn't. In fact, the whole Sequel Trilogy was devoid of a defined villain. No, Kylo Ren didn't count because we always knew what his arc would be, but he needed a foil, much like Palpatine was Vader's.

"THIS SENATE IS UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT... BY ORDER OF THE JEDI FOOKIN COUNCIL!"

Heh, I've always thought that if they ever decide to go with a Young Tarkin movie or series where he rises up through the ranks, that they should cast Cillian Murphy.

[Scuzz]

Sequel Trilogy. Thought that was pretty much the accepted way to refer to it.

I have to admit I didn’t know what it meant either,

[Blackhawk]

The sequel trilogy (I also had never heard 'ST' before this thread) had its issues, and while I didn't love them, I did enjoy them, and there were some things (like finally admitting the inherent imbalance in the Jedi order being the good guys) that I thought were overdue.

[Rumpy]

Oh yeah, I loved some parts, but I think where they really dropped the ball is in building something cohesive. Not having some structure really hurt the movies, imho. Contrast that with the Original Trilogy, and even though they were also making it up as they went along, it had more thematical structure, and you had more of a sense they were going places. I had no such feeling with the sequels.

[El Guapo]

Oh yeah, I loved some parts, but I think where they really dropped the ball is in building something cohesive. Not having some structure really hurt the movies, imho. Contrast that with the Original Trilogy, and even though they were also making it up as they went along, it had more thematical structure, and you had more of a sense they were going places. I had no such feeling with the sequels.

Yeah, the fundamental problem was that it sure seems like there was no planning around the overall arc for the trilogy. Force Awakens was a straight up remake of A New Hope, I think largely because Disney was terrified about the possibility of making something that Star Wars fans wouldn't like. Then they turn it over to Rian Johnson for the next movie because Johnson is a big well respected name, only he can't really do an Empire remake so he plays with it a bit but taking things in a different direction - makes it look like there's a redemption arc for Kylo Ren, only he rejects it, etc. Only a sizeable number of fans freak out about it, so Disney wildly overcorrects and both undoes everything interesting about Last Jedi but then also throws in a ton of unfiltered fan service - "hey you guys remember Palpatine, right? You like him?? Here he is again!"

And the result is that the whole thing was a hot mess. Force Awakens and Last Jedi are both decent movies I think on their own (while Rise is pure garbage), but taken together it's just totally incoherent.

[malchior]

Oh yeah, I loved some parts, but I think where they really dropped the ball is in building something cohesive. Not having some structure really hurt the movies, imho. Contrast that with the Original Trilogy, and even though they were also making it up as they went along, it had more thematical structure, and you had more of a sense they were going places. I had no such feeling with the sequels.

Yeah, the fundamental problem was that it sure seems like there was no planning around the overall arc for the trilogy. Force Awakens was a straight up remake of A New Hope, I think largely because Disney was terrified about the possibility of making something that Star Wars fans wouldn't like. Then they turn it over to Rian Johnson for the next movie because Johnson is a big well respected name, only he can't really do an Empire remake so he plays with it a bit but taking things in a different direction - makes it look like there's a redemption arc for Kylo Ren, only he rejects it, etc. Only a sizeable number of fans freak out about it, so Disney wildly overcorrects and both undoes everything interesting about Last Jedi but then also throws in a ton of unfiltered fan service - "hey you guys remember Palpatine, right? You like him?? Here he is again!"

And the result is that the whole thing was a hot mess. Force Awakens and Last Jedi are both decent movies I think on their own (while Rise is pure garbage), but taken together it's just totally incoherent.

All this. The most interesting thing to me about this latest announcement is that it settles some big rumors. The most impactful of which was Kevin Feige possibly being deployed to fix Star Wars. That is now clearly proved as not true. Even his long rumored movie seems to be off the radar. It appears Disney is leaving Star Wars in the hands of Kennedy who arguably was the architect of the above. You have to figure Iger stepping back in changed the math significantly. He seems to be giving a pass to the ST underwhelming critically since the franchise is still making healthy returns in several formats (streaming/parks/merchandise/etc.). Plus, Star Wars *streaming* seems to be doing ok critically at the moment so that probably explains why much of this is partly the streaming strategy transformed into a big movie tie-in to tie a bow. Which could work. We'll see.

[Zarathud]

I think it’s important to remember that Carrie Fisher died, so wherever they were hoping to end couldn’t happen.

Lucas viewed Star Wars as a family saga, within the lens of the hero’s journey archetype. Rather than ending with a mother-daughter facing a father-son confrontation, we had the daughter-son before the father. Where Luke followed and rejected Yoda’s teaching for his friends and trust in his father, I think Rey was supposed to find her new way under Leila’s guidance and rejecting her father for her new family. And Ben Solo would have died trying to save his mother, the last Skywalker, giving more resonance to Rey’s decision to take up the name in their honor.

[Rumpy]

Oh yeah, I loved some parts, but I think where they really dropped the ball is in building something cohesive. Not having some structure really hurt the movies, imho. Contrast that with the Original Trilogy, and even though they were also making it up as they went along, it had more thematical structure, and you had more of a sense they were going places. I had no such feeling with the sequels.

Yeah, the fundamental problem was that it sure seems like there was no planning around the overall arc for the trilogy. Force Awakens was a straight up remake of A New Hope, I think largely because Disney was terrified about the possibility of making something that Star Wars fans wouldn't like. Then they turn it over to Rian Johnson for the next movie because Johnson is a big well respected name, only he can't really do an Empire remake so he plays with it a bit but taking things in a different direction - makes it look like there's a redemption arc for Kylo Ren, only he rejects it, etc. Only a sizeable number of fans freak out about it, so Disney wildly overcorrects and both undoes everything interesting about Last Jedi but then also throws in a ton of unfiltered fan service - "hey you guys remember Palpatine, right? You like him?? Here he is again!"

And the result is that the whole thing was a hot mess. Force Awakens and Last Jedi are both decent movies I think on their own (while Rise is pure garbage), but taken together it's just totally incoherent.

Yeah, definitely no planning, which I feel really hurt the trilogy. I mean, it's one of the most popular sci-fi franchises, they should have had a gameplan right from the start with the story beats planned ahead of time for the directors to follow. It really felt like they had no idea what they were doing.

I think it’s important to remember that Carrie Fisher died, so wherever they were hoping to end couldn’t happen.

Sorry, but I disagree. They must have known she was ill before even starting the trilogy, and had they planned it out, they would have been able to build a contingency plan. The quality of the trilogy showed its warning signs way before she passed away and hinges more on the planning than any of the individuals. The trilogy has been a complete mess with or without her.

[ImLawBoy]

I think it’s important to remember that Carrie Fisher died, so wherever they were hoping to end couldn’t happen.

Sorry, but I disagree. They must have known she was ill before even starting the trilogy, and had they planned it out, they would have been able to build a contingency plan. The quality of the trilogy showed its warning signs way before she passed away and hinges more on the planning than any of the individuals. The trilogy has been a complete mess with or without her.

She had a heart attack on a plane.

[Rumpy]

She did, but there were reports that her health was failing well before then. She knew she likely probably wasn't going to be making many more movies.

[Scuzz]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up. No coherent plot line at all.

[Zarathud]

Carrie Fisher was drunk and high during the original trilogy. Not even Disney could make her survive a heart attack on a plane.

[Zarathud]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up. No coherent plot line at all.

So did Empire. There was little chance you could guess the ending after the original 2 movies.

[hepcat]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up.

It certainly did. It tried to add a mature storyline instead of following the trend of teen action film.

[Scuzz]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up.

It certainly did. It tried to add a mature storyline instead of following the trend of teen action film.

What storyline in the second sequel do you consider “mature”. Space Leia? The gambling planet maybe? The “death” of Luke?

[Scuzz]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up. No coherent plot line at all.

So did Empire. There was little chance you could guess the ending after the original 2 movies.

Well, you knew it would involve a planet killing ship and a fight between Luke and his daddy.

[Chraolic]

So did Empire. There was little chance you could guess the ending after the original 2 movies.

I couldn't even guess what all happened before Rise of Skywalker. It really feels like there's a movie missing between episode 8 and 9.

[hepcat]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up.

It certainly did. It tried to add a mature storyline instead of following the trend of teen action film.

What storyline in the second sequel do you consider “mature”. Space Leia? The gambling planet maybe? The “death” of Luke?

Luke’s questioning of the force and its religious reverence, the destruction of the whole “chosen one” story that previous entries relied upon, to name two.

You’ve been fed a children’s version of knights and dragons so long that you’ve probably come to believe that’s all you want/need. But Johnson tried something different and some folks kicked back against it. It’s understandable, I guess.

[Hrothgar]

Guardian

Lucasfilm recently announced that Peaky Blinders’ Steven Knight had replaced Damon Lindelof and Justin Britt-Gibson as writers on that film.

For a second there I thought they brought on Steven DeKnight (Buffy, Angel) instead of Steven Knight (Peaky Blinders, The Girl in the Spider's Web, Locke). Both interesting but different.

Just a random thought on Ep IX, since this is the most recent thread:

Why in the fuck did they go with Palpatine physically cloning himself when the counterpoint of a dark-side force-ghost afterlife was *right there*??

Connecting the light-side version (Qui Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin) to the dark would have been so much more thematically interesting, especially when Luke is busy rejecting the whole project as flawed at the same time.

The dark side equivalent is Transfer Essence which is pretty much the plot of RoS.

[ImLawBoy]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up. No coherent plot line at all.

So did Empire. There was little chance you could guess the ending after the original 2 movies.

I don't think you understand. The first trilogy was perfect with no logical inconsistencies, so they were great. Anything else Star Wars is rife with absurdities and contradictions and should be shit upon at every opportunity.

This is the way.

[hepcat]

I still consider Hardware Wars to be canon.

[Scraper]

I still consider Hardware Wars to be canon.

This was the height of Star Wars and most definitely cannon.

[El Guapo]

The second sequel basically changed everything the first sequel set up.

It certainly did. It tried to add a mature storyline instead of following the trend of teen action film.

What storyline in the second sequel do you consider “mature”. Space Leia? The gambling planet maybe? The “death” of Luke?

Luke’s questioning of the force and its religious reverence, the destruction of the whole “chosen one” story that previous entries relied upon, to name two.

You’ve been fed a children’s version of knights and dragons so long that you’ve probably come to believe that’s all you want/need. But Johnson tried something different and some folks kicked back against it. It’s understandable, I guess.

It's definitely true that Last Jedi took things that were hinted at in Force Awakens and took them in a different direction. Then Rise took what Last Jedi did and to an almost comical degree reversed them. It's why everyone can agree that the Sequel Trilogy (ST) is an incoherent mess, while disagreeing on which movie(s) in them are the real problem.

For what it's worth while Last Jedi had some silly stuff in it (Space Mary Poppins being the most indefensible), it at least tried to take what the Force Awakens set up and make sense of it. Like, the whole map to Luke Skywalker thing didn't make any sense at all. So like I get why a lot of people didn't like Curmudgeon Luke, but that's the most logical explanation for why Luke went to a planet off of galactic charts and then cut himself off from everyone.

[Rumpy]

So did Empire. There was little chance you could guess the ending after the original 2 movies.

I couldn't even guess what all happened before Rise of Skywalker. It really feels like there's a movie missing between episode 8 and 9.

Yeah, you're right. And again, that's down to no structure, no sense of direction. I really don't feel the trilogy did any heavy-lifting of its own to create a sense of legacy. Some of the elements were there, but they never really took advantage of them, but they did borrow heavily from the original trilogy, almost too much IMHO as I felt it overshadowed anything of Rey's era. There's nothing left to explore as they didn't bother to create anything interesting, no building blocks. Anything they're proposing with Rey could just as easily be done with a newly created character set about a century later.

So like I get why a lot of people didn't like Curmudgeon Luke, but that's the most logical explanation for why Luke went to a planet off of galactic charts and then cut himself off from everyone.

It was also for me, one of the more interesting aspects of the new trilogy. I think what was done that is that echoed a lot of what happened in the novels where Luke gets temped with the dark side. I never expected Luke to stay the same after all this time, so I was more than a little surprised to hear so much negativity surrounding that bit, but I found it to be a great bit of character growth.

[El Guapo]

So did Empire. There was little chance you could guess the ending after the original 2 movies.

I couldn't even guess what all happened before Rise of Skywalker. It really feels like there's a movie missing between episode 8 and 9.

Yeah, you're right. And again, that's down to no structure, no sense of direction. I really don't feel the trilogy did any heavy-lifting of its own to create a sense of legacy. Some of the elements were there, but they never really took advantage of them, but they did borrow heavily from the original trilogy, almost too much IMHO as I felt it overshadowed anything of Rey's era. There's nothing left to explore as they didn't bother to create anything interesting, no building blocks. Anything they're proposing with Rey could just as easily be done with a newly created character set about a century later.

Yeah, that's the great missed opportunity of the sequel trilogy. The sad part being that the best option now is probably to basically write the true New Republic era stuff now, set it after Episode IX, and just put Rey in where Luke should've been.

[Isgrimnur]

With whom do you replace Senator Organa-Solo?