Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Moderators: The Preacher, $iljanus, Zaxxon
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Figured I'd just make a separate thread for this one since there are a few of us here who backed the 2nd printing.
Got through Chapter 1 over the past couple of nights and wanted to share early first impressions.
I wound up enjoying the story mode quite a bit, even though it's basic choose-your-own-adventure fare. It's well-written, the (optional) app has great narration, and the time tracking forces you to think carefully about your choices. The game rewards being efficient, but doesn't necessarily penalize you for taking your time, and I liked that while I wanted to be quick to get bonuses, I didn't feel pressured.
Encounter mode is the real meat of the game, however, when you fight the big boss battles. I wound up taking two full characters and two companions, and feel that's probably the sweet spot for complexity vs time. After playing I actually think I could manage four full characters with little issue, but I'd like to finish this campaign sometime in the next century. Companions do greatly speed things up at the cost of fewer strategic options.
One thing super unique about Oathsworn is the ability to use cards or dice to resolve combat. The rules recommend always using cards for enemies to prevent swinginess, so at first I decided to do cards for enemies and dice for heroes. However, after watching a playthrough I changed my mind and went cards for the heroes as well. The reason is that card counting is completely allowed in this game, and knowing your hit/miss probabilities adds another strategic layer to the game that I found appealing. Plus the tactile feel of drawing your cards and slowly flipping them one by one added a bit of tasty suspense that the dice can't replicate.
Gameplay-wise I though going in that the card strategy would be equal to Gloomhaven complexity, but I'd say it's quite a bit more simple. I do like the cooldown mechanic in which cards slowly rotate back into your hand, but I didn't find it as brain-burning as Gloomhaven. That's not to say there's not a LOT of strategic chunkiness to explore - the fact that characters can take actions in pretty much any order sets up a lot of interesting opportunities. In addition, you can always see what the boss is doing next, so you have to weigh your attacks against possibly being in a position to get steamrolled when the boss activates.
I did wind up beating the Chapter 1 boss, but it wasn't easy. I had 2 heroes get knocked out and it took a desperate last stand clutch shot by my ranger to finish it off.
So far the game is a blast. My only complaint is table space. I still haven't found an optimal setup on my table that really satisfies, and I find myself constantly digging in the box for stuff. I think before Chapter 2 I'm going to come up with a better organization scheme to try to give this thing a semi-permanent home.
Got through Chapter 1 over the past couple of nights and wanted to share early first impressions.
I wound up enjoying the story mode quite a bit, even though it's basic choose-your-own-adventure fare. It's well-written, the (optional) app has great narration, and the time tracking forces you to think carefully about your choices. The game rewards being efficient, but doesn't necessarily penalize you for taking your time, and I liked that while I wanted to be quick to get bonuses, I didn't feel pressured.
Encounter mode is the real meat of the game, however, when you fight the big boss battles. I wound up taking two full characters and two companions, and feel that's probably the sweet spot for complexity vs time. After playing I actually think I could manage four full characters with little issue, but I'd like to finish this campaign sometime in the next century. Companions do greatly speed things up at the cost of fewer strategic options.
One thing super unique about Oathsworn is the ability to use cards or dice to resolve combat. The rules recommend always using cards for enemies to prevent swinginess, so at first I decided to do cards for enemies and dice for heroes. However, after watching a playthrough I changed my mind and went cards for the heroes as well. The reason is that card counting is completely allowed in this game, and knowing your hit/miss probabilities adds another strategic layer to the game that I found appealing. Plus the tactile feel of drawing your cards and slowly flipping them one by one added a bit of tasty suspense that the dice can't replicate.
Gameplay-wise I though going in that the card strategy would be equal to Gloomhaven complexity, but I'd say it's quite a bit more simple. I do like the cooldown mechanic in which cards slowly rotate back into your hand, but I didn't find it as brain-burning as Gloomhaven. That's not to say there's not a LOT of strategic chunkiness to explore - the fact that characters can take actions in pretty much any order sets up a lot of interesting opportunities. In addition, you can always see what the boss is doing next, so you have to weigh your attacks against possibly being in a position to get steamrolled when the boss activates.
I did wind up beating the Chapter 1 boss, but it wasn't easy. I had 2 heroes get knocked out and it took a desperate last stand clutch shot by my ranger to finish it off.
So far the game is a blast. My only complaint is table space. I still haven't found an optimal setup on my table that really satisfies, and I find myself constantly digging in the box for stuff. I think before Chapter 2 I'm going to come up with a better organization scheme to try to give this thing a semi-permanent home.
Last edited by YellowKing on Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
- baelthazar
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Indiana
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
REALLY WANTING MINE TO COME!!! I feel like mine was in that second boat.
My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CythUulu/videos
- Fardaza
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:13 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I got to play that same first story and encounter at BGG Con last November. That exposure made me back it. The 3 others I played with felt the same way.YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:48 pm One thing super unique about Oathsworn is the ability to use cards or dice to resolve combat. The rules recommend always using cards for enemies to prevent swinginess, so at first I decided to do cards for enemies and dice for heroes. However, after watching a playthrough I changed my mind and went cards for the heroes as well. The reason is that card counting is completely allowed in this game, and knowing your hit/miss probabilities adds another strategic layer to the game that I found appealing. Plus the tactile feel of drawing your cards and slowly flipping them one by one added a bit of tasty suspense that the dice can't replicate.
So far the game is a blast. My only complaint is table space. I still haven't found an optimal setup on my table that really satisfies, and I find myself constantly digging in the box for stuff. I think before Chapter 2 I'm going to come up with a better organization scheme to try to give this thing a semi-permanent home.
I ordered the super fancy dice, so I will be using those instead of cards!
The dice seem like they will be more like a D&D style of attacking. I'm not a fan of the idea of card counting. Too much work not enough enjoyment for me.
Table space is an issue, but maybe it can be reduced by keeping most of the materials in the box and on the floor. ???
Somebody from SW Missouri posted on BGG that they got their game yesterday and didn't even receive a shipping notice. I don't know if that helps my anticipation or not!
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
That's what I'm doing now but it's less than ideal as I have a curious dog that has been known to grab random stuff that's on the floor.Fardaza wrote:Table space is an issue, but maybe it can be reduced by keeping most of the materials in the box and on the floor. ???
To be fair, the game does include token trays, card organizers, etc. So that stuff is very neatly organized and not an issue. I just haven't found a good setup in which everything I need is within arm's reach. This is especially true since you need space around all 4 sides of your character board for the cooldown rotation.
I may play Chapter 2 through using just dice for the heroes just to see which method I prefer. I'll report back here when I've made a final decision.
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 55955
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I am eagerly awaiting my copy - it's probably the second most anticipated game for me in 2023 (Isofarian Guard was #1), so my expectations are rather high. I have no doubt my shipment will be one of the last. That's just how it is.
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts regardless - definitely helping to keep my excitement high!
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts regardless - definitely helping to keep my excitement high!
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Got my shipping notice yesterday. Still no delivery date though on the tracking number.
Lord of His Pants
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
And four days later, my package STILL hasn't left their warehouse. Label created is all they have.
Lord of His Pants
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 55955
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I think they label them and then stick it on a pallet for batch mailing. So you get the "label generated" notification and then it sits for 4+ days.
At least you know it's coming. I'm guessing mid-October for me.
At least you know it's coming. I'm guessing mid-October for me.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
And it just went out. Looks like it gets here Friday. Whoo hoo!
Lord of His Pants
- baelthazar
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Indiana
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Happy for you... still nothing for me (on Oathsworn, Uprising, or Voidfall).
My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CythUulu/videos
- baelthazar
- Posts: 4494
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Indiana
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I reached out to Bridge and they said my Oathsworn wasn't with them yet. So mine is in the group expected to come in 9/27.
My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CythUulu/videos
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I played through the Chapter 2 story last night and found it quite a bit more engaging than Chapter 1. I also used dice for all my skill checks and....yeah...I may be converting to dice for the heroes. I seem to have much better luck there.
The only real "problem" with dice is that you always have an equal miss chance, whereas with the cards you can game the system a bit. If you draw a lot of blanks early, your odds of hitting just keep going up and up. On the other hand, that also means you always have an equal critical/high dmg chance, so you can potentially do more damage overall over the course of the encounter.
I'm playing Encounter 2 tonight so we'll see how it goes.
The only real "problem" with dice is that you always have an equal miss chance, whereas with the cards you can game the system a bit. If you draw a lot of blanks early, your odds of hitting just keep going up and up. On the other hand, that also means you always have an equal critical/high dmg chance, so you can potentially do more damage overall over the course of the encounter.
I'm playing Encounter 2 tonight so we'll see how it goes.
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Ok, Encounter 2 in the books!
This time I used only dice for our intrepid heroes, and here are my thoughts vs cards:
I do think in general dice make the game *slightly* easier. There are two reasons for this.
Reason #1: Obviously card decks change probabilities as you draw cards, whereas dice probabilities never change. This makes them more swingy in that you always have an equal chance of low rolls (or misses) and high rolls (or crits). However, you do have ways to mitigate blanks. So you're reaping the advantage of the static probability in rolling high numbers while still having a way to deal with misses. With the cards, you have ways to mitigate blanks, but you're not reaping the benefit of an equal chance of high numbers/crits as the deck diminishes.
Reason #2: A key mechanic in the game is being able to spend 1 Animus to reshuffle a Might deck. With dice, you literally never have to do this. So an Animus sink is removed from the game right off the bat.
Now, the reason I only said *slightly* easier is that the dice advantages are tempered somewhat by the fact that they make combat unpredictable. With cards, you may hold off on an attack because you know your chances of missing are huge based on what's left in the deck. Or you may feel comfortable swinging for the fences because you've already drawn all your blanks. If you've drawn a lot of blanks early, or very few blanks early, you have information dice chuckers don't have.
Over the course of the campaign as a whole, it's probably a wash. Things you do in the story are going to determine how many battle tokens you have, which is going to factor in, you're going to have good luck, you're going to have bad luck, and in the end it probably doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference. But it's fun to analyze.
All that said, I plan on sticking with the dice for the heroes from here on out. It's fun to roll dice, and as much as I find the strategic layer of card counting really fascinating, it really slowed the game down for me. I was spending too much time shuffling, organizing blanks on top of the decks so I could keep track, etc. And even though I finished the second boss with no losses, it never felt like a cakewalk.
The game's still a blast, I'm enjoying it more and more now that I'm comfortable with the rules and my characters have a couple of levels and some shiny new gear under their belts. Looking forward to everyone else's impressions!
This time I used only dice for our intrepid heroes, and here are my thoughts vs cards:
I do think in general dice make the game *slightly* easier. There are two reasons for this.
Reason #1: Obviously card decks change probabilities as you draw cards, whereas dice probabilities never change. This makes them more swingy in that you always have an equal chance of low rolls (or misses) and high rolls (or crits). However, you do have ways to mitigate blanks. So you're reaping the advantage of the static probability in rolling high numbers while still having a way to deal with misses. With the cards, you have ways to mitigate blanks, but you're not reaping the benefit of an equal chance of high numbers/crits as the deck diminishes.
Reason #2: A key mechanic in the game is being able to spend 1 Animus to reshuffle a Might deck. With dice, you literally never have to do this. So an Animus sink is removed from the game right off the bat.
Now, the reason I only said *slightly* easier is that the dice advantages are tempered somewhat by the fact that they make combat unpredictable. With cards, you may hold off on an attack because you know your chances of missing are huge based on what's left in the deck. Or you may feel comfortable swinging for the fences because you've already drawn all your blanks. If you've drawn a lot of blanks early, or very few blanks early, you have information dice chuckers don't have.
Over the course of the campaign as a whole, it's probably a wash. Things you do in the story are going to determine how many battle tokens you have, which is going to factor in, you're going to have good luck, you're going to have bad luck, and in the end it probably doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference. But it's fun to analyze.
All that said, I plan on sticking with the dice for the heroes from here on out. It's fun to roll dice, and as much as I find the strategic layer of card counting really fascinating, it really slowed the game down for me. I was spending too much time shuffling, organizing blanks on top of the decks so I could keep track, etc. And even though I finished the second boss with no losses, it never felt like a cakewalk.
The game's still a blast, I'm enjoying it more and more now that I'm comfortable with the rules and my characters have a couple of levels and some shiny new gear under their belts. Looking forward to everyone else's impressions!
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Just got my box. This is Dungeon Universalis type big. It's like 25 pounds. And I can already tell it's going to be a bear to organize, what with all the stuff I'm not supposed to even look at until the game tells me to.
I've got an app deployment at 6 tonight, but I may head home a little earlier today and start breaking this open before then. Then tomorrow I'll try for at least a story game.
I've got an app deployment at 6 tonight, but I may head home a little earlier today and start breaking this open before then. Then tomorrow I'll try for at least a story game.
I've gotten used to running 3 or 4 characters in the crawls I play solo (Middara and Descent 4 because they require it, all others 3). Can I just dive in with 3 or 4? Or will I be overwhelmed? The time sink issue isn't that big of a deal for me.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
If you've run Middara with 4, you should have no problem at all running 4 with Oathsworn. A lot less to keep track of in terms of gear (you only have hands, armor, and one gear slot). Also, the ability cards are not as complex as something like Gloomhaven, so I haven't found it to be much of a brain burn. At least with the characters I'm playing (Penitent and Warbear), I've generally found every ability card to be situational - AoE, reaction, specific target, etc. So it's not hard to say "yep, none of these apply so I'm going to standard attack." Or "this card does apply to this situation, so I'll play this." It's not like Gloomhaven where you have 10 cards that are equally useful and you're trying to decide among them.hepcat wrote:I've gotten used to running 3 or 4 characters in the crawls I play solo (Middara and Descent 4 because they require it, all others 3). Can I just dive in with 3 or 4? Or will I be overwhelmed? The time sink issue isn't that big of a deal for me.
I've actually considered converting my two companions to full characters, but as it stands I tend to only get one Story or one Encounter (not both) in a night. So I'm just rolling with it for now.
- Fardaza
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:13 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I plan on running two full characters and two companions. If it's not "meaty" enough, I'll switch a companion or both to complete characters.YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:43 pmIf you've run Middara with 4, you should have no problem at all running 4 with Oathsworn. A lot less to keep track of in terms of gear (you only have hands, armor, and one gear slot). Also, the ability cards are not as complex as something like Gloomhaven, so I haven't found it to be much of a brain burn. At least with the characters I'm playing (Penitent and Warbear), I've generally found every ability card to be situational - AoE, reaction, specific target, etc. So it's not hard to say "yep, none of these apply so I'm going to standard attack." Or "this card does apply to this situation, so I'll play this." It's not like Gloomhaven where you have 10 cards that are equally useful and you're trying to decide among them.hepcat wrote:I've gotten used to running 3 or 4 characters in the crawls I play solo (Middara and Descent 4 because they require it, all others 3). Can I just dive in with 3 or 4? Or will I be overwhelmed? The time sink issue isn't that big of a deal for me.
I've actually considered converting my two companions to full characters, but as it stands I tend to only get one Story or one Encounter (not both) in a night. So I'm just rolling with it for now.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
…and sorted. That took a good two hours this afternoon. But it does help me understand what cards and components I’ll be dealing with. Tomorrow I’ll try a story.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Got through the Chapter 4 Story today and stopped short of playing the Encounter.
Some people have accused the game of being too easy, but I've found the challenge level to be more than adequate. 2 KOs on first boss, no KOs on second boss, 2 KOs on third boss. And all three fights came down to the wire.
Don't sleep on the Story phases either - they can kick your ass if you're careless or just plain unlucky.
Re: continued dice usage, I was a tad concerned they were making things easier after I escaped a relatively easy Chapter 2 fight, but Chapter 3 proved otherwise.
Lest anyone think I'm spoiling anything by revealing which bosses were harder for me, bear in mind that there are far too many factors at play to be able to translate my outcomes to your game. I honestly couldn't tell you on paper how the 3 bosses I've seen so far rank in terms of difficulty. From what I've seen so far, every boss can be easy, and every boss can be a party wiper - it just depends on your strategy and luck.
Some people have accused the game of being too easy, but I've found the challenge level to be more than adequate. 2 KOs on first boss, no KOs on second boss, 2 KOs on third boss. And all three fights came down to the wire.
Don't sleep on the Story phases either - they can kick your ass if you're careless or just plain unlucky.
Re: continued dice usage, I was a tad concerned they were making things easier after I escaped a relatively easy Chapter 2 fight, but Chapter 3 proved otherwise.
Lest anyone think I'm spoiling anything by revealing which bosses were harder for me, bear in mind that there are far too many factors at play to be able to translate my outcomes to your game. I honestly couldn't tell you on paper how the 3 bosses I've seen so far rank in terms of difficulty. From what I've seen so far, every boss can be easy, and every boss can be a party wiper - it just depends on your strategy and luck.
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Finished Chapter 4 and realized I was playing a fundamental rule wrong. So I'm posting it here as a cautionary tale.
The confusion was due to the way companions work. Because they don't use ability cards, they can just do a standard or special attack by spending 1 Animus.
I was spending Animus correctly when playing my full character Ability cards, but I was erroneously *not* putting my "default attack" card into Cooldown after spending 3 Animus to attack. For some reason I thought I could just spend Animus and standard attack without spending a card. This means there were turns where I might have attacked twice when I should have only been able to attack once. In short - you can only use your "default action" card once per Oathsworn phase. There are other ability card bottoms that let you do additional standard attacks, but they typically cost more than the standard 3 Animus to use.
This does, however, clear up a lot of confusion on my part at how there didn't seem to me to be as much strategy around Animus and cooldown management as I was expecting. Turns out, that's because I wasn't putting as many cards into cooldown as I should have been.
Obviously this means I was making the game a bit easier on myself, which doesn't bode well since I was feeling more than enough challenged as-is.
I did consider briefly just starting over, but I've already sunk 10-12 hours into the game so that seems a bit of a waste. I have a suspicion I'll be playing this again someday with my group, so I'm not going to sweat it too much. Lesson learned, moving on.
Still having a total blast with the game. I had my first full party wipe. I do like how the game doesn't overly punish you for retrying. You do have to take the 4 KO score loss, but you only lose items/gain injuries depending on what happens on the retry.
The confusion was due to the way companions work. Because they don't use ability cards, they can just do a standard or special attack by spending 1 Animus.
I was spending Animus correctly when playing my full character Ability cards, but I was erroneously *not* putting my "default attack" card into Cooldown after spending 3 Animus to attack. For some reason I thought I could just spend Animus and standard attack without spending a card. This means there were turns where I might have attacked twice when I should have only been able to attack once. In short - you can only use your "default action" card once per Oathsworn phase. There are other ability card bottoms that let you do additional standard attacks, but they typically cost more than the standard 3 Animus to use.
This does, however, clear up a lot of confusion on my part at how there didn't seem to me to be as much strategy around Animus and cooldown management as I was expecting. Turns out, that's because I wasn't putting as many cards into cooldown as I should have been.
Obviously this means I was making the game a bit easier on myself, which doesn't bode well since I was feeling more than enough challenged as-is.
I did consider briefly just starting over, but I've already sunk 10-12 hours into the game so that seems a bit of a waste. I have a suspicion I'll be playing this again someday with my group, so I'm not going to sweat it too much. Lesson learned, moving on.
Still having a total blast with the game. I had my first full party wipe. I do like how the game doesn't overly punish you for retrying. You do have to take the 4 KO score loss, but you only lose items/gain injuries depending on what happens on the retry.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
First story and encounter down. I’m sticking with the cards for now as there are abilities and items that give you the chance to shuffle the discards into the draw decks. I feel like I’d be missing something if I used dice.
The story mode is surprisingly fun for what is essentially a choose your own adventure game. They basically just took the same approach as Folkore: The Affliction. But thankfully combat and leveling up are much more fun.
The first encounter had two knockouts. It felt balanced enough. The only quibble I have is that I get confused sometimes by trying to figure out things like 17 divided by 9 and then round down. But I think I have a simple formula to make it easier just using the old x goes into y how many times approach.
The battleflow mechanic is interesting, adding a nice spin to the old refresh exhausted cards paradigm.
One thing they really do well is organization. It’s refreshing that once you’re done with a story or encounter components, they just go back to their original storage area. This will make playing through again SO much easier.
The story mode is surprisingly fun for what is essentially a choose your own adventure game. They basically just took the same approach as Folkore: The Affliction. But thankfully combat and leveling up are much more fun.
The first encounter had two knockouts. It felt balanced enough. The only quibble I have is that I get confused sometimes by trying to figure out things like 17 divided by 9 and then round down. But I think I have a simple formula to make it easier just using the old x goes into y how many times approach.
The battleflow mechanic is interesting, adding a nice spin to the old refresh exhausted cards paradigm.
One thing they really do well is organization. It’s refreshing that once you’re done with a story or encounter components, they just go back to their original storage area. This will make playing through again SO much easier.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
You'll get used to that quick and it becomes second nature. My thought process is generally ATK > DEF = hit, ATK < DEF - miss. If hit, how many times does my DEF go into the ATK.hepcat wrote:The only quibble I have is that I get confused sometimes by trying to figure out things like 17 divided by 9 and then round down.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Is a miss when you do no damage? I thought miss only applied to drawing two blanks during the initial might draw? I’ve been applying knockback and other affects even when I do no damage in light of that interpretation.
Another thing I have a sort of quibble with is determination. It feels like it was tacked on and I always forget it. But I probably just need to get used to it.
Another thing I have a sort of quibble with is determination. It feels like it was tacked on and I always forget it. But I probably just need to get used to it.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I've been playing with your interpretation, hep. A miss is two blanks, a hit is anything else. Whether it does damage or not is irrelevant to the effects. I have abilities that specifically call out "when an enemy is damaged do X" so I feel like that's the correct interpretation.
I missed the determination rule a lot early on as well, but you're definitely going to want to get used to it. Unfortunately the rulebook kind of makes it sound like you only apply the rule if you used a token on the attack miss. However, it comes into play on *any* miss. Now that I'm a few fights in, I can see why they did it. It's a way to keep tokens coming into the party during the encounter and helps to mitigate the critical efficiency loss of missing attacks.
I missed the determination rule a lot early on as well, but you're definitely going to want to get used to it. Unfortunately the rulebook kind of makes it sound like you only apply the rule if you used a token on the attack miss. However, it comes into play on *any* miss. Now that I'm a few fights in, I can see why they did it. It's a way to keep tokens coming into the party during the encounter and helps to mitigate the critical efficiency loss of missing attacks.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I will say that I'm really glad I went with the standee version. The miniatures are way too big to use with any of my other games. If I'm backing a game at the deluxe level with all the miniatures, then I need that value add of being able to use them with other games (Dungeon Universalis, Frostgate, etc.) to justify the extra cost. Drunagor is perfect for that, as is Sword and Sorcery to a lesser extent. The scale they use for Oathsworn is just awkward when compared to 28 or 32 mm.
And while it sounds like I'm constantly kvetching about the game, I just want to go on the record as stating that I highly recommend the game based on the strength of the game's two modes: storytelling and encounters. I think they do an excellent job of both. And the fact that it plays like a legacy game that is incredibly easy to dive back into with new characters and different choices should you decide to play it again is a major plus. Seriously, this is how you make a legacy game. In the past, when I've finished one, I've just dumped it as it's usually a nightmare to reset. Oathsworn though? Easy as π.
And while it sounds like I'm constantly kvetching about the game, I just want to go on the record as stating that I highly recommend the game based on the strength of the game's two modes: storytelling and encounters. I think they do an excellent job of both. And the fact that it plays like a legacy game that is incredibly easy to dive back into with new characters and different choices should you decide to play it again is a major plus. Seriously, this is how you make a legacy game. In the past, when I've finished one, I've just dumped it as it's usually a nightmare to reset. Oathsworn though? Easy as π.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
This game can be brutal. Last night I had a full party wipe with a boss with only 1 HP left. Ouch. I had to walk away for a bit.
I'm still trying to figure out the best strategy, because you know the boss is going to reaction attack you every time it loses a hit die (usually 4-5 times), in addition to its regular encounter attacks (which is going to depend on the number of rounds).
I think one major mistake I'm making strategy-wise is "fearing reaction attacks." I've found myself trying to evenly whittle down the boss's hit dice so as to advance the goal of ultimately defeating it without provoking reaction attacks (which occur when it loses a hit die). The problem with that strategy is that if you're not breaking hit dice, then you're suffering the full wrath of the boss's attacks every time. Only by breaking body parts can you weaken attacks, and I'm getting ground down because I'm not breaking them until the late game.
So on the second attempt I'll definitely be trying to play the game the way I believe the strategy was designed, which is breaking hit dice as quickly as possible that correspond to attacks, and thereby weaken those attacks as early in the encounter as possible. I believe the cumulative effect of weakened attacks is going to mean the difference in my success rate.
I feel kind of dumb I wasn't really grasping the importance of this strategy before now, but then again I was making things slightly easier on myself with my rules misunderstanding (see previous post). Now that I'm playing correctly, I'm realizing I'm going to need my big boy pants.
I'm still trying to figure out the best strategy, because you know the boss is going to reaction attack you every time it loses a hit die (usually 4-5 times), in addition to its regular encounter attacks (which is going to depend on the number of rounds).
I think one major mistake I'm making strategy-wise is "fearing reaction attacks." I've found myself trying to evenly whittle down the boss's hit dice so as to advance the goal of ultimately defeating it without provoking reaction attacks (which occur when it loses a hit die). The problem with that strategy is that if you're not breaking hit dice, then you're suffering the full wrath of the boss's attacks every time. Only by breaking body parts can you weaken attacks, and I'm getting ground down because I'm not breaking them until the late game.
So on the second attempt I'll definitely be trying to play the game the way I believe the strategy was designed, which is breaking hit dice as quickly as possible that correspond to attacks, and thereby weaken those attacks as early in the encounter as possible. I believe the cumulative effect of weakened attacks is going to mean the difference in my success rate.
I feel kind of dumb I wasn't really grasping the importance of this strategy before now, but then again I was making things slightly easier on myself with my rules misunderstanding (see previous post). Now that I'm playing correctly, I'm realizing I'm going to need my big boy pants.
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Retried Boss 5 last night after getting my ass handed to me, and prevailed with only one KO. This time I used my strategy of focusing on breaking hit dice for commonly used attacks, and that did make a big difference.
In general, I think you can expect that a "broken" attack vs a regular attack is probably on average saving you 1 HP per attack. Broken attacks ignore the most powerful might card, so unless you got lucky and drew a blank you're potentially saving yourself 3-4 damage (which takes 4-5 armor to mitigate). Since you're generally only going to have 4-7 armor early on, you can see how eliminating that damage right off the top can easily save you a hit point.
Which brings me to my next observation, HP is the most critical resource in the entire game, more than money, battle tokens, or anything else. Because it's almost impossible to heal in this game. Even "healer" classes (I put that in heavy quotes because they are so limited) have to sacrifice HP themselves to heal others. Every battle I've party wiped on was because I came into the Encounter with unusually low health (from story events). And every time I've replayed an Encounter (which resets everyone's HP back to max), I've won on the second try. Keeping your party members healthy during the story event is the single biggest advantage you can give yourself heading into a fight.
In general, I think you can expect that a "broken" attack vs a regular attack is probably on average saving you 1 HP per attack. Broken attacks ignore the most powerful might card, so unless you got lucky and drew a blank you're potentially saving yourself 3-4 damage (which takes 4-5 armor to mitigate). Since you're generally only going to have 4-7 armor early on, you can see how eliminating that damage right off the top can easily save you a hit point.
Which brings me to my next observation, HP is the most critical resource in the entire game, more than money, battle tokens, or anything else. Because it's almost impossible to heal in this game. Even "healer" classes (I put that in heavy quotes because they are so limited) have to sacrifice HP themselves to heal others. Every battle I've party wiped on was because I came into the Encounter with unusually low health (from story events). And every time I've replayed an Encounter (which resets everyone's HP back to max), I've won on the second try. Keeping your party members healthy during the story event is the single biggest advantage you can give yourself heading into a fight.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Hmmmm...thanks for the tip on health. I hadn't really thought about that, but looking at the other characters, I see what you mean.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Chapter 6 down and I had the stunning realization that I was playing cooldown wrong (going clockwise instead of counter-clockwise) last night. Aargh. That's one of the downfalls of solo gaming; you don't have someone rules checking you. On the other hand, cooldown strategy makes a *lot* more sense to me now.
I briefly considered just scrapping everything and starting over from scratch considering all the rules fumbles I've had, but ultimately forgave myself and chalked it up to a learning experience. It's certainly not like my playthrough has been a walk in the park, even giving myself the rules error advantages. Also, I think there's a very high chance of me playing through the campaign again with my gaming group at some point.
Which brings me to the actual point of this post - I'm really impressed with how balanced the game is in terms of allowing you to recover from bad sessions.
It does this in a number of ways. The only way to truly "fail" a mission is to have all four Oathsworn knocked out. You can win an encounter with only one Oathsworn left on the board (as I did last night). If you do fail, you have the option to retry (which resets all health to max, and any KOs in the previous round don't count in terms of losing extra items or gaining injuries). Or you can take your lumps and move on without replaying, giving every Oathsworn an injury and losing 2 items.
But say you had a bad session like I did last night - 3 Oathsworn KO'd and you pull out the win. 3 injuries and 6 items lost sounds severe, but there's plenty of mitigation built in. At this point I've got one Free Company Trait that allows me heal an injury once per chapter for X amount of gold. You can buy Curatives that get shuffled into the Injury deck that, if pulled when drawing an injury, prevent the injury. And even though you're losing items, you're always going to gain at least 5 items per Encounter (3 common and 2-3 Unique), so it's usually not a big deal to lose a weapon and replace it with a different one. Right now I've got a backpack full of spare gear that I can use in a pinch.
I wound up coming out of that terrible session last night with only one net injury that didn't mean anything (healed one, drew a curative on the second, and the last one was against my companion who suffers no ill effects if she only has 1 injury). Lost 6 items total but replaced them with mostly better stuff I looted from the encounter. And I gained a level which gave another permanent token. Terrible fight, heavy losses, came out of it better than I was going in. I love that about this game.
I briefly considered just scrapping everything and starting over from scratch considering all the rules fumbles I've had, but ultimately forgave myself and chalked it up to a learning experience. It's certainly not like my playthrough has been a walk in the park, even giving myself the rules error advantages. Also, I think there's a very high chance of me playing through the campaign again with my gaming group at some point.
Which brings me to the actual point of this post - I'm really impressed with how balanced the game is in terms of allowing you to recover from bad sessions.
It does this in a number of ways. The only way to truly "fail" a mission is to have all four Oathsworn knocked out. You can win an encounter with only one Oathsworn left on the board (as I did last night). If you do fail, you have the option to retry (which resets all health to max, and any KOs in the previous round don't count in terms of losing extra items or gaining injuries). Or you can take your lumps and move on without replaying, giving every Oathsworn an injury and losing 2 items.
But say you had a bad session like I did last night - 3 Oathsworn KO'd and you pull out the win. 3 injuries and 6 items lost sounds severe, but there's plenty of mitigation built in. At this point I've got one Free Company Trait that allows me heal an injury once per chapter for X amount of gold. You can buy Curatives that get shuffled into the Injury deck that, if pulled when drawing an injury, prevent the injury. And even though you're losing items, you're always going to gain at least 5 items per Encounter (3 common and 2-3 Unique), so it's usually not a big deal to lose a weapon and replace it with a different one. Right now I've got a backpack full of spare gear that I can use in a pinch.
I wound up coming out of that terrible session last night with only one net injury that didn't mean anything (healed one, drew a curative on the second, and the last one was against my companion who suffers no ill effects if she only has 1 injury). Lost 6 items total but replaced them with mostly better stuff I looted from the encounter. And I gained a level which gave another permanent token. Terrible fight, heavy losses, came out of it better than I was going in. I love that about this game.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
So if you played a 3 card, you'd move it to 0 if you played another 3 card later? That's a pretty big advantage! Which must mean this game gets significantly harder as you go if you were still having issues with the difficulty. Ooof, I'm in for a rough ride, ain't I....YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:22 am Chapter 6 down and I had the stunning realization that I was playing cooldown wrong (going clockwise instead of counter-clockwise) last night. Aargh. That's one of the downfalls of solo gaming; you don't have someone rules checking you. On the other hand, cooldown strategy makes a *lot* more sense to me now.
Lord of His Pants
- Fardaza
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:13 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Wow! I can't wait to give it a try. It sounds even better than what I experienced during my playthrough at BGGcon last November.YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:22 am Lost 6 items total but replaced them with mostly better stuff I looted from the encounter. And I gained a level which gave another permanent token. Terrible fight, heavy losses, came out of it better than I was going in. I love that about this game.
On the other hand, I also read on BGG that it gets REALLY dark during story sessions as the campaign goes on.
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Yeah I guess in my mind clockwise just made more sense, I wasn't even really thinking about "counting down." But there was always a nagging feeling in my mind that some of my most powerful cards had the shortest cooldowns. I'm a dumbass, what can I say. Unlike a lot of other games that I watch extensive playthroughs for before diving in, I didn't do a lot of that for this one because of spoilers.hepcat wrote:So if you played a 3 card, you'd move it to 0 if you played another 3 card later? That's a pretty big advantage!
I don't know that I'd say it gets *significantly* harder as it goes along. I think every encounter is designed to be challenging, and a lot of how you do is going to be dependent on how much HP you have going into the fight, whether you get ambushed or not, etc. (Ambushed means you lose a turn and the boss acts first before you can even move, ie you're essentially f****d).
I'd say a lot of the advantages I had early on from the rules flubs were counter-balanced by my lack of strategy. So there were fights that might have been a LOT easier had I focused on breaking attack dice, for instance. It's another reason I seriously considered starting over - my fight strategy has grown by leaps and bounds as I've played and learned the flow of combat. The game *really* emphasizes planning your moves around what the boss is going to do, since their next attack is telegraphed. And for much of the early game I wasn't taking that into consideration as much as I should have.
My other reason for starting over would be to ditch the dice and go back to cards (like you, hepcat, I'm now starting to see how much deck refreshes is a part of the mechanics and I feel I'm missing out now). I think I'd also pick new main characters. My Penitent and Warbear are essentially just slight variations of the same class, and sometimes I feel like I'm just playing two tanks which isn't super exciting. I know I could swap characters out at any time, but I always had the dream of sticking with one party through the whole campaign.
The more I talk out loud, the more I'm considering starting over. I could breeze through the story sections quickly and probably get caught back up in a couple of weeks.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I'm the king of dumb asses when it comes to gaming (although a compelling argument can be made that is true in all other areas as well). Just ask Zarathud and Archinerd.YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:46 amYeah I guess in my mind clockwise just made more sense, I wasn't even really thinking about "counting down." But there was always a nagging feeling in my mind that some of my most powerful cards had the shortest cooldowns. I'm a dumbass, what can I say.hepcat wrote:So if you played a 3 card, you'd move it to 0 if you played another 3 card later? That's a pretty big advantage!
Yeah, I saw that there were card and special powers based on controlling the timing of deck refreshes and I just had this nagging feeling that that might pay off later. So I'm going with cards all the way.YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:46 am
My other reason for starting over would be to ditch the dice and go back to cards (like you, hepcat, I'm now starting to see how much deck refreshes is a part of the mechanics and I feel I'm missing out now). I think I'd also pick new main characters.
It's all about the Cur, baby. I love that name and class. But I went with Penitent, Cur and Witch (I'm always going with either a Witch or Witch Hunter if you have them in your game).YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:46 am My Penitent and Warbear are essentially just slight variations of the same class, and sometimes I feel like I'm just playing two tanks which isn't super exciting. I know I could swap characters out at any time, but I always had the dream of sticking with one party through the whole campaign.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I think if I start over I'm going 4 full characters. I've found the frustration of having limited actions with the Companions outweighs the slight time-saving. Usually you can count on them only getting one attack in per round (one Animus to move, one to attack), whereas with full characters you can often do multiple attacks if you manage your Animus correctly. I think the battles are going to be much more satisfying having the full gamut of abilities to work with.
The only downside is space. Right now I have my Companions placed in a narrow strip of table under the map because they don't need room for cooldowns. Four full characters is definitely going to mean a complete rearrangement of my current setup.
The only downside is space. Right now I have my Companions placed in a narrow strip of table under the map because they don't need room for cooldowns. Four full characters is definitely going to mean a complete rearrangement of my current setup.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I may bump my one companion to full character then. If I can fit 3 drunagor characters with the official game trays on my table, 4 oathsworn should be OK.
Lord of His Pants
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Ok, I'm committed now. Tore down the old game and started over. Rearranged the play area and think I have a workable solution.
I kept my Cur and Ranger because I enjoyed them as Companions and look forward to seeing what they can do as full characters. I also wanted something close to a traditional D&D classic tank/ranger/rogue/mage party.
For the tank role I ditched Penitent and Warbear. While both are very viable tanks, I wanted to change things up since I've been playing them awhile. The Warden is the most "pure" tank class so he was the obvious choice as a replacement.
And I chose the Witch for the obvious wizard role. She does look quite a bit more complicated than the others with laying out fire and water tiles, etc, But should be fun.
The only downside is now I have to paint the Warden and Witch.
I kept my Cur and Ranger because I enjoyed them as Companions and look forward to seeing what they can do as full characters. I also wanted something close to a traditional D&D classic tank/ranger/rogue/mage party.
For the tank role I ditched Penitent and Warbear. While both are very viable tanks, I wanted to change things up since I've been playing them awhile. The Warden is the most "pure" tank class so he was the obvious choice as a replacement.
And I chose the Witch for the obvious wizard role. She does look quite a bit more complicated than the others with laying out fire and water tiles, etc, But should be fun.
The only downside is now I have to paint the Warden and Witch.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
I love the picture of the witch on her player board. She looks like she’s terrified.
Lord of His Pants
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 55955
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
- Location: Kaer Morhen
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
You guys are making a second attempt at the game and I'm still in limbo, waiting for delivery.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31081
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
She probably just realized she's about to be controlled by a guy who can't even get the most basic rules of the game right, much less the rules of a complex spellcaster.hepcat wrote:I love the picture of the witch on her player board. She looks like she’s terrified.
- hepcat
- Posts: 53884
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
Lord of His Pants
- Fardaza
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:13 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Oathsworn: Into the Deepwood
My game was delivered this afternoon!
Haven't had time to unbox it though.
Haven't had time to unbox it though.