Octopus Overlords

theohall wrote:I seriously don't understand the Vorret vote when we have 6 other candidates more likely to be a wolf between the list of those Remus West named and those early voters on bb2112.

I'm not convinced by wolf-lists, and unimpressed by voting count deductions. I look at relationships and behavior over mathematics.

But I haven't had time to really go back and give a thorough read, and I don't think I will anytime soon (lots to do at work), so I'm relying on the work done by redrun, whom I trust.

Look how defensive and stressed out Vorret has become, just now. That's not the behavior of a villager. A special, maybe, but Vorret isn't a special.

Lagom Lite wrote:

theohall wrote:I seriously don't understand the Vorret vote when we have 6 other candidates more likely to be a wolf between the list of those Remus West named and those early voters on bb2112.

I'm not convinced by wolf-lists, and unimpressed by voting count deductions. I look at relationships and behavior over mathematics.

But I haven't had time to really go back and give a thorough read, and I don't think I will anytime soon (lots to do at work), so I'm relying on the work done by redrun, whom I trust.

Look how defensive and stressed out Vorret has become, just now. That's not the behavior of a villager. A special, maybe, but Vorret isn't a special.

Lord Mortis has done the same and has actively sought to make everyone discount my idea about the early bb2112 vote in relation to him. Why? Also, he agreed with Remus West quite a bit, especially irt Vorret. IMO, this makes Lord Mortis look more guilty.

Lagom Lite wrote:

theohall wrote:I seriously don't understand the Vorret vote when we have 6 other candidates more likely to be a wolf between the list of those Remus West named and those early voters on bb2112.

I'm not convinced by wolf-lists, and unimpressed by voting count deductions. I look at relationships and behavior over mathematics.

But I haven't had time to really go back and give a thorough read, and I don't think I will anytime soon (lots to do at work), so I'm relying on the work done by redrun, whom I trust.

Look how defensive and stressed out Vorret has become, just now. That's not the behavior of a villager. A special, maybe, but Vorret isn't a special.

Early in the game it wouldn't have bothered me. Right now I'm just annoyed that we're not all able to see the urgency of the situation. Other than Baktosh our lynch stats are pretty bad so maybe we should look at who's starting the train and take them out?

RMC wrote:Sorry I said I hoped to have time. I am a villager, just not a lot to add. <shrug> We got had by Remus, and when I brought up that possibility I was told "not likely" by everyone. Then it was discovered he was a wolf. That is my only real defense that I am a villager. Take it for what that is.

I have not had a chance to reread everything, and we have time, so what is the rush?

Two more days of no input and no vote from you and grund.

Total players = 14
Majority = 8
5 should decide lastish in the day, leaving 9 to debate and bicker and whatever.

When two player of the nine decide to do nothing it's a problem, IMO.

6 days remaining and coming toward a weekend and then a week around a holiday (for many of us)

<shrug>

LordMortis wrote:

RMC wrote:Sorry I said I hoped to have time. I am a villager, just not a lot to add. <shrug> We got had by Remus, and when I brought up that possibility I was told "not likely" by everyone. Then it was discovered he was a wolf. That is my only real defense that I am a villager. Take it for what that is.

I have not had a chance to reread everything, and we have time, so what is the rush?

Two more days of no input and no vote from you and grund.

Total players = 14
Majority = 8
5 should decide lastish in the day, leaving 9 to debate and bicker and whatever.

When two player of the nine decide to do nothing it's a problem, IMO.

6 days remaining and coming toward a weekend and then a week around a holiday (for many of us)

<shrug>

I completely agree with this.
But as I said earlier, good luck getting anything done when the proven don't agree with you. It was such a bad move for everyone to reveal like that, it creates a really crappy situation for everyone else (except the 2 remaining wolves who are, I'm sure, enjoying the situation).

Oh and I'm on holiday this weekend

Day 4 Vote Count
Votes required for lynch - 8

Against purge (3): Unagi, pr0ner, Lassr
Against Vorret (2): redrun, Lagom
Against Unagi (2): tru1cy, Vorret
Against Grund (2): Scoop, LordMortis
Against LordMortis (1): theohall

No votes (4) - RMC, Purge, Grundbegriff, Chaosraven,



Votes for Seance Requires as least 8 Votes of which the Medium must be 1

For bb2112 (1): tru1cy


There are 12 villagers + 2 wolves alive. The deadline for the lynch vote is July 3rd at 1pm Eastern time (please check my math).

LM isn't voting for me, he's voting for Grund.
Minor detail

I guess I don't see any patterns. I had hoped to see something from rereading, that would jump out to me. But my pointing out of the possibility of Remus not being a wolf, was universally panned, even by myself. And while I did say I always like to vote for Remus, even I pointed out that it was unlikely that the wolves would do such a thing.

So basically, it doesn't prove my innocence, and really doesn't implicate anyone else that I can see.

I could vote for Purge or Vorrent, but I don't have a strong feeling on either of them. I really thought EL Guapo was a wolf, and I was wrong on that feeling. <shrug>

So I guess I will vote for  Purge 
 
As I feel that Unagi is less likely to be a wolf than LordMortis. Not sure why, except that LM is really pushing for me, and I am not a wolf.

I could switch to Vorrent easily, as LL is a proven, and while not infallible, he has a good track record.

Want to hear my wild ass theory and why I am voting for Purge...

The wolves were somewhat desperate when they lost Bahktosh on day 1 then they killed the sorcerer. I never dreamed they would fake the seer at that point but they did in an attempt to draw out specials which somewhat succeeded.

Remus named 1 innocent in his list hoping that Chaosraven would be chosen as a lynch (when Remus was exposed) because of the history of Remus and Chaos. Then we were likely to move to the next target being Purge because Unagi would push for him. Purge would be wolf and wolf Unagi would look like the other innocent in Remus list. But what happened? Oops, Chaos was the hunter. SO Unagi must push for Purge now to be lynched.

Yes, it is a theory, and a wild one too but Remember Mara Jade and BB2112 WAS the seer...what are the odds....

So I want to test Purge just to see...

 withdraw Lord Mortis

purge 
 


Just to get some movement.

Heck Lassr's theory at least makes sense. Well at least it might be plausible anyway. So I'll keep my vote on Purge.

So if Purge is a wolf, I think Unagi is also.

But if Purge is not, then I have to rethink Unagi. I'm not sure a wolf Unagi would push so hard to lynch an innocent Purge knowing he would probably be the next target then.

Interesting theory Lassr.
If they both come out good, you should be next though, actually I'd even go as far that if one of them is good you should be next, just in case ! Then again if one of them is a wolf you kinda gain immunity because no wolf you do that... that would be as crazy as Remus calling Seer when the actual seer was still alive.

Lassr wrote:Want to hear my wild ass theory and why I am voting for Purge...

The wolves were somewhat desperate when they lost Bahktosh on day 1 then they killed the sorcerer. I never dreamed they would fake the seer at that point but they did in an attempt to draw out specials which somewhat succeeded.

Remus named 1 innocent in his list hoping that Chaosraven would be chosen as a lynch (when Remus was exposed) because of the history of Remus and Chaos. Then we were likely to move to the next target being Purge because Unagi would push for him. Purge would be wolf and wolf Unagi would look like the other innocent in Remus list. But what happened? Oops, Chaos was the hunter. SO Unagi must push for Purge now to be lynched.

Yes, it is a theory, and a wild one too but Remember Mara Jade and BB2112 WAS the seer...what are the odds....

So I want to test Purge just to see...

If I'm following what you are implying:

Remus will come out as seer (and is the berserker).
Remus will name Chaosraven who will be lynched first since everyone knows that Remus/Chaos have a history. The wolves are sure of this.
Remus will not be challenged by the real seer.
Remus will name Unagi on the next day.
Unagi will push for his brother wolf to be lynched, thus buying cred with the village. Noone else will push as hard or start the vote on Purge, which might remove Unagi's chance to claim the credit.
Unagi had previously started the lynch of Baktosh, the fourth wolf.
So, all the wolves will die to provide Unagi with village cred as a good guy.

Occam's razor application sez.... this is silly.

RMC jumps in to say this makes sense.

Lassr, RMC, Vorret... which of these isn't a wolf?

I said it is was at least plausible if you read the whole post. But you really want me to be a wolf. <shrug>

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:Want to hear my wild ass theory and why I am voting for Purge...

The wolves were somewhat desperate when they lost Bahktosh on day 1 then they killed the sorcerer. I never dreamed they would fake the seer at that point but they did in an attempt to draw out specials which somewhat succeeded.

Remus named 1 innocent in his list hoping that Chaosraven would be chosen as a lynch (when Remus was exposed) because of the history of Remus and Chaos. Then we were likely to move to the next target being Purge because Unagi would push for him. Purge would be wolf and wolf Unagi would look like the other innocent in Remus list. But what happened? Oops, Chaos was the hunter. SO Unagi must push for Purge now to be lynched.

Yes, it is a theory, and a wild one too but Remember Mara Jade and BB2112 WAS the seer...what are the odds....

So I want to test Purge just to see...

If I'm following what you are implying:

Remus will come out as seer (and is the berserker).
Remus will name Chaosraven who will be lynched first since everyone knows that Remus/Chaos have a history. The wolves are sure of this.
Remus will not be challenged by the real seer.
Remus will name Unagi on the next day.
Unagi will push for his brother wolf to be lynched, thus buying cred with the village. Noone else will push as hard or start the vote on Purge, which might remove Unagi's chance to claim the credit.
Unagi had previously started the lynch of Baktosh, the fourth wolf.
So, all the wolves will die to provide Unagi with village cred as a good guy.

Occam's razor application sez.... this is silly.

RMC jumps in to say this makes sense.

Lassr, RMC, Vorret... which of these isn't a wolf?

I imagine they wanted the real seer to expose himself as their plan but when it didn't happen...

Far fetched, yes it is. But part of me still thinks Remus either added 3 innocents to his list or both wolves (that way when we lynched one we may think that was it and move on to the other unknowns list).

Something about Unagi play is still bothering me. When I was reading day 1 the Remus, Lord Mortis, and Unagi "interaction" (what I quoted earlier) made me suspicious. So I read a little more on those players and then Unagi started really pushing for Purge. He's seems very confident but I was not confident on purge because of what was discussed earlier with BB2112 backing off of him on day 2.

So. if Purge is a wolf then it is worth the effort to test Unagi because the wolves would be down to only 1 player and we have more room to error. If Purge is not then our next choices need to be more careful.

Lassr wrote:Want to hear my wild ass theory and why I am voting for Purge...

My guess is it's because you want to not look like his partner? Although, I will be honest, I'm starting to think it may be LM.


Anyhow - I would need to go back and read when things actually went down, but from memory:

Lassr wrote:The wolves were somewhat desperate when they lost Bahktosh on day 1

You know I basically started that train on Bakhtosh. That' absolutely doesn't make me "not a wolf" - but you may want to at least consider it in your theory.

Lassr wrote:Remus named 1 innocent in his list hoping that Chaosraven would be chosen as a lynch (when Remus was exposed) because of the history of Remus and Chaos.

This is on the day he made the Seer claim. The day that, as we now know, the wolves would have Fully expected to be countered for that. Right? So, Remus' two names would have been perhaps suspect... and one was one that we KNOW to be a Goodie. I'm on board this level of your theory. I think CR was to be tested first, and that may have then put purge off the hot seat.

What happened next though is that he was not countered, and Remus made his Nth kill. I think Remus was basically in "I can't believe they are letting me get away with this" mode at that point. He was willing to make a big a mess as he could. I realize I'm the only one who "knows" what my role is, but when this all went down - I thought it was pretty funny that he came out and named ME (perhaps that's ego). My "Hooray, I'm Cleared" comment was both sincere and sarcastic.... in that if Remus was eventually proven, then "Hooray", and if he was eventually disproven, then "Hooray "
I'm (I realize no one else can be) positive that I was listed by Remus because he knew that people would argue to test me.

Lassr wrote:Then we were likely to move to the next target being Purge because Unagi would push for him.

This part of your theory makes no sense. If we lynched CR and he came out Human - - wouldn't the woves assume/hope/plan that we may stop right there... Not that we would keep going. It's that thought that made me double-down on my purge vote.

Lassr wrote:But what happened? Oops, Chaos was the hunter. SO Unagi must push for Purge now to be lynched.

CR coming out as the hunter only spared us from testing him and finding him to be human. How exactly does:
"We lynched CR and found him to be human." change anything when instead "Chaos claimed hunter and proved it"

The point of that (my theory of why CR was named) was to take eyes off Purge. It's my belief that he added me (a villager) to his list on the 2nd day, so that if we did indeed hit on Purge, we'd be forced to at least Miss on Me. Or, even better - if we tested {CR and Unagi} first , purge would be a total 'long shot'.

Lassr wrote:So I want to test Purge just to see...

Indeed

Lassr wrote:So. if Purge is a wolf then it is worth the effort to test Unagi because the wolves would be down to only 1 player and we have more room to error. If Purge is not then our next choices need to be more careful.

So the wolves started this game by saying 'Let's have Unagi be the last wolf, and he will kill us all off early, and then ride out the game wondering why he can't find the last wolf and they will never think to test him'.

If purge is a wolf, test me - then test Lassr.

heh.... actually now that I say that. If purge is NOT a wolf - we should test Lassr.

Lassr wrote:...then Unagi started really pushing for Purge. He's seems very confident but I was not confident on purge because of what was discussed earlier with BB2112 backing off of him on day 2.

Just like my read on Scoop from the last game, I'm not 100% certain, but I find it helps to not falter.

Unagi wrote:

Lassr wrote:So. if Purge is a wolf then it is worth the effort to test Unagi because the wolves would be down to only 1 player and we have more room to error. If Purge is not then our next choices need to be more careful.

So the wolves started this game by saying 'Let's have Unagi be the last wolf, and he will kill us all off early, and then ride out the game wondering why he can't find the last wolf and they will never think to test him'.

If purge is a wolf, test me - then test Lassr.

heh.... actually now that I say that. If purge is NOT a wolf - we should test Lassr.

I will volunteer for today since so many think I am a wolf.

Lynch me now is the better option than later, that I am sure of.

Lassr wrote:...then Unagi started really pushing for Purge. He's seems very confident but I was not confident on purge because of what was discussed earlier with BB2112 backing off of him on day 2.

Just like my read on Scoop from the last game, I'm not 100% certain, but I find it helps to not falter.

oh, I guess that did post.... disregard double post....

Unagi wrote:

Lassr wrote:So. if Purge is a wolf then it is worth the effort to test Unagi because the wolves would be down to only 1 player and we have more room to error. If Purge is not then our next choices need to be more careful.

So the wolves started this game by saying 'Let's have Unagi be the last wolf, and he will kill us all off early, and then ride out the game wondering why he can't find the last wolf and they will never think to test him'.

If purge is a wolf, test me - then test Lassr.

heh.... actually now that I say that. If purge is NOT a wolf - we should test Lassr.

I said it was a wild ass theory but something that crossed my mind. I had VERY little doubt that Remus was the seer either and look what happened.
I wanted that theory out there for people to think about. So lynch me now so ya'll can move on.

Damnit...

We are focused on too many people and if it turns out we're all good we're gonna have some trouble later on.

Unagi
Lassr
Vorret
LM
Purge

Unagi + Purge are "obvious" target because of Remus, though, it might have been his plan all along if he failed to stay alive, we would have had to test the 3 people he named (I agree with Unagi, I'm sure he's still wondering WTF BB was thinking by not saying anything).

Vorret + Lassr + LM :
We come up very often in vote consideration as well for different reasons.

What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

Unagi wrote:If purge is a wolf, test me - then test Lassr.

Against purge (3): Unagi, pr0ner, Lassr

Ow. Tell me the corollary to this is not "If purge is not a wolf. Don't test me or lassr."

[quote'"Lassr"]I will volunteer for today since so many think I am a wolf.

Lynch me now is the better option than later, that I am sure of.[/quote]

Hey. That's my philosophy and one I still hold true to.

Unagi wrote:If purge is a wolf, test me - then test Lassr.

Against purge (3): Unagi, pr0ner, Lassr

Ow. Tell me the corollary to this is not "If purge is not a wolf. Don't test me or lassr."

Lassr wrote:I will volunteer for today since so many think I am a wolf.

Lynch me now is the better option than later, that I am sure of.

Hey. That's my philosophy and one I still hold true to.

LordMortis wrote:

Unagi wrote:If purge is a wolf, test me - then test Lassr.

Against purge (3): Unagi, pr0ner, Lassr

Ow. Tell me the corollary to this is not "If purge is not a wolf. Don't test me or lassr."

corollary to this is not "If purge is not a wolf. Don't test me or lassr."

Vorret wrote:
What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

that has crossed my mind also. I don't know what to make of this new Grund behavior, it may be his wolf disguise. I am having a harder time getting a feel this game for alliances. I still think it is possible that Grund is the zerker also. It could be that the 2 wolves are just sitting back and letting us tear at each other.

But for now I think Purge is a good test.

Lassr wrote:It could be that the 2 wolves are just sitting back and letting us tear at each other.

Unthinkable !

Yes, while I think that about 80% of the time, that's indeed what is going on - I still think purge is really a wolf.

Lassr wrote:

Vorret wrote:
What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

that has crossed my mind also.

+1.

I've a suggestion for tomorrow (game tomorrow). After the morning post from Stessier (which I strongly suspect will include the death of Chaosraven), the four remaining known good should just shut up (That would Redrun, Lagom Lite, Tru1cy, and Theohall). Let's see what happens when the remaining unproven villagers and the wolves talk. If the wolves are hiding by remaining silent it should become obvious. It'll be hard for anyone to simply say "well, that seems to make sense, I'm not sure about this, but it seems to be the best choice , so (implied) I'll follow what so&so sez and they are responsible for this lynch. In other words, make the unknowns take a stance for themselves - for I also fear the wolves are riding the coattails.

As for those who keep saying "but I'm innocent". Yeah, if you really are innocent it's not fun being in your seat. If you really aren't innocent, it's a valid defensive move for wolves.

I'll try to remember to post this suggestion at start of day tomorrow, and I'll follow it - if anyone else gets there before me, feel free to post such. Other provens will have to decide for themselves if they agree with this idea.

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Vorret wrote:
What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

that has crossed my mind also.

+1.

I've a suggestion for tomorrow (game tomorrow). After the morning post from Stessier (which I strongly suspect will include the death of Chaosraven), the four remaining known good should just shut up (That would Redrun, Lagom Lite, Tru1cy, and Theohall). Let's see what happens when the remaining unproven villagers and the wolves talk. If the wolves are hiding by remaining silent it should become obvious. It'll be hard for anyone to simply say "well, that seems to make sense, I'm not sure about this, but it seems to be the best choice , so (implied) I'll follow what so&so sez and they are responsible for this lynch. In other words, make the unknowns take a stance for themselves - for I also fear the wolves are riding the coattails.

As for those who keep saying "but I'm innocent". Yeah, if you really are innocent it's not fun being in your seat. If you really aren't innocent, it's a valid defensive move for wolves.

I'll try to remember to post this suggestion at start of day tomorrow, and I'll follow it - if anyone else gets there before me, feel free to post such. Other provens will have to decide for themselves if they agree with this idea.

I like the plan.

Lassr wrote:

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Vorret wrote:
What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

that has crossed my mind also.

+1.

I've a suggestion for tomorrow (game tomorrow). After the morning post from Stessier (which I strongly suspect will include the death of Chaosraven), the four remaining known good should just shut up (That would Redrun, Lagom Lite, Tru1cy, and Theohall). Let's see what happens when the remaining unproven villagers and the wolves talk. If the wolves are hiding by remaining silent it should become obvious. It'll be hard for anyone to simply say "well, that seems to make sense, I'm not sure about this, but it seems to be the best choice , so (implied) I'll follow what so&so sez and they are responsible for this lynch. In other words, make the unknowns take a stance for themselves - for I also fear the wolves are riding the coattails.

As for those who keep saying "but I'm innocent". Yeah, if you really are innocent it's not fun being in your seat. If you really aren't innocent, it's a valid defensive move for wolves.

I'll try to remember to post this suggestion at start of day tomorrow, and I'll follow it - if anyone else gets there before me, feel free to post such. Other provens will have to decide for themselves if they agree with this idea.

I like the plan.

+1. Great idea!

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Vorret wrote:
What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

that has crossed my mind also.

+1.

I've a suggestion for tomorrow (game tomorrow). After the morning post from Stessier (which I strongly suspect will include the death of Chaosraven), the four remaining known good should just shut up (That would Redrun, Lagom Lite, Tru1cy, and Theohall). Let's see what happens when the remaining unproven villagers and the wolves talk. If the wolves are hiding by remaining silent it should become obvious. It'll be hard for anyone to simply say "well, that seems to make sense, I'm not sure about this, but it seems to be the best choice , so (implied) I'll follow what so&so sez and they are responsible for this lynch. In other words, make the unknowns take a stance for themselves - for I also fear the wolves are riding the coattails.

As for those who keep saying "but I'm innocent". Yeah, if you really are innocent it's not fun being in your seat. If you really aren't innocent, it's a valid defensive move for wolves.

I'll try to remember to post this suggestion at start of day tomorrow, and I'll follow it - if anyone else gets there before me, feel free to post such. Other provens will have to decide for themselves if they agree with this idea.

Fine. Except I might post Remus' role (berzerker or not berzerker).

In the interest of moving things along:

 withdraw Vorret 
 


 purge 
 

Sounds like a good plan. Guess I have to put a little more effort into who I am voting for. Will do. And great idea.

Clearly we should get the news on if Remus was the zerker.

Unagi wrote:

Lassr wrote:...then Unagi started really pushing for Purge. He's seems very confident but I was not confident on purge because of what was discussed earlier with BB2112 backing off of him on day 2.

Just like my read on Scoop from the last game, I'm not 100% certain, but I find it helps to not falter.

You just wanted to look like a genius more than once. (double post)

Vorret wrote:Damnit...

We are focused on too many people and if it turns out we're all good we're gonna have some trouble later on.

Unagi
Lassr
Vorret
LM
Purge

Unagi + Purge are "obvious" target because of Remus, though, it might have been his plan all along if he failed to stay alive, we would have had to test the 3 people he named (I agree with Unagi, I'm sure he's still wondering WTF BB was thinking by not saying anything).

Vorret + Lassr + LM :
We come up very often in vote consideration as well for different reasons.

What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

And who fits the profile of sitting back trying to fly under the radar?

I know from personal experience of faking a Seer (I've done it several times now to difference levels of success) they you almost NEVER want to name your wolf colleagues for fear the eventually you will be found out and then the gig is up for them too.

Also, naming a normal as good reinforces everyone opinion that you are the real Seer. Unagi probably felt really good about Remus being the Seer after he proved you.

Really guys, I'd look at the guys that Remus didn't name.

One of them being me and also one of them being Grund.

This Grund we have here doesn't not feel like a good Grund. No controversial stands. No vote pattern to trace. And lots of funny and ultimately fluff posting.

Thats my case again today. See you tomorrow.

Lagom Lite wrote:

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Vorret wrote:
What happens if the 5 of us are good? I'm simply worried we may be too focused on the 5 of us and not enough of the other few that could be a wolf and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is currently flying completely unnoticed.

that has crossed my mind also.

+1.

I've a suggestion for tomorrow (game tomorrow). After the morning post from Stessier (which I strongly suspect will include the death of Chaosraven), the four remaining known good should just shut up (That would Redrun, Lagom Lite, Tru1cy, and Theohall). Let's see what happens when the remaining unproven villagers and the wolves talk. If the wolves are hiding by remaining silent it should become obvious. It'll be hard for anyone to simply say "well, that seems to make sense, I'm not sure about this, but it seems to be the best choice , so (implied) I'll follow what so&so sez and they are responsible for this lynch. In other words, make the unknowns take a stance for themselves - for I also fear the wolves are riding the coattails.

As for those who keep saying "but I'm innocent". Yeah, if you really are innocent it's not fun being in your seat. If you really aren't innocent, it's a valid defensive move for wolves.

I'll try to remember to post this suggestion at start of day tomorrow, and I'll follow it - if anyone else gets there before me, feel free to post such. Other provens will have to decide for themselves if they agree with this idea.

Fine. Except I might post Remus' role (berzerker or not berzerker).

Yes, please do because that can only help us.