Octopus Overlords

Smoove_B wrote:

Grifman wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 10:00 am So why provoke a crisis now?

They can't resist the opportunity to cause suffering, most likely.

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:03 pm Deep inside, I have the same burn-it-down, 'let them reap what they sowed' urge. But I'm in the category that is least insulated against it all burning down, and I have enough compassion to recognize the impact that it would have on millions of people in the same boat (or in a leakier one) as I, many of whom do not support Trump or the GOP.

I can't wish for millions to suffer in order to get feel-good revenge on millions of others.

Then again, if it's the only way for that particular lesson to be learned, I'd accept it as the price for a better future.

Grifman wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 8:31 am And yes, Musk's effectively the shadow president. We’ll see how long those two egos can co-exist.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:51 pm There was a time when I thought having everyone suffer would make a difference. Then I saw them all claw back the COVID-19 changes (funding, support, etc...) that were made to help people as fast as they possibly could once the winter 2022 wave was over. I can't imagine what it would take at this point in terms of everyone having daily suffering for there to be long-lasting change. I honestly don't think it'll be possible.

The next shutdown will squeeze and disproportionately impact even more those that are already at the margins; it's not going to affect the majority of Americans in an appreciable way. It certainly didn't in 2018/19 when it was shut down for over a month - the longest shutdown in our nation's history.

El Guapo wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:16 pm I remember when everything shut down in April 2020 thinking "well at least Trump will almost certainly lose resoundingly with everything shut down and the economy presumably hurting". And then he still almost won!

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:37 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:16 pm I remember when everything shut down in April 2020 thinking "well at least Trump will almost certainly lose resoundingly with everything shut down and the economy presumably hurting". And then he still almost won!

You probably forgot how he delayed the release of the CARES Act checks to everyone to make sure his name was on them and part of the mailing.

Grifman wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:34 pm For maybe the first time I will applaud Trump for something - he wants to get rid of the meaningless debt limit:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna184820

This is something the Dems should get behind.

In the past, Democrats have been open to the idea of eliminating the debt ceiling, as Trump has suggested. Sen. Elizabeth Warren backed the proposal earlier today, saying, “I agree with President-elect Trump that Congress should terminate the debt limit and never again govern by hostage taking.”

“President Trump’s last-minute request that the debt ceiling be eliminated throws a whole other issue into the debate,” said Sen. Susan Collins, the top Republican on the Senate Appropriations Committee. She said “it’s a real worry” that the government could shut down and federal workers would not get paid.

He (Jeffries) also asked his caucus who his negotiating partner would be, and asked if he should be calling Musk.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:51 pm There was a time when I thought having everyone suffer would make a difference. Then I saw them all claw back the COVID-19 changes (funding, support, etc...) that were made to help people as fast as they possibly could once the winter 2022 wave was over. I can't imagine what it would take at this point in terms of everyone having daily suffering for there to be long-lasting change. I honestly don't think it'll be possible.

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:06 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:51 pm There was a time when I thought having everyone suffer would make a difference. Then I saw them all claw back the COVID-19 changes (funding, support, etc...) that were made to help people as fast as they possibly could once the winter 2022 wave was over. I can't imagine what it would take at this point in terms of everyone having daily suffering for there to be long-lasting change. I honestly don't think it'll be possible.

A fraction of a percent died. Maybe one percent had an immediate family member die. Long COVID had was subtle and slow, and people didn't always associate it directly with COVID (people are like children and dogs - if consequences don't immediately follow the cause, they don't form proper associations between the two.)

There wasn't enough suffering, and it wasn't widespread enough to change the way people think. What suffering it did cause was carefully spun by the right to be either a lie, a conspiracy, or the left's fault, or they changed the argument to be about the economic and social impacts alone (remember - basing your opinions and conclusions on actual documented fact isn't how the populace has come to think.)

Grifman wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:34 pm For maybe the first time I will applaud Trump for something - he wants to get rid of the meaningless debt limit:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna184820

This is something the Dems should get behind.

hepcat wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 9:18 pm I can’t wait for the ego clash that’s coming. Bannon was like Musk lite and look how long he lasted. Plus, Musk’s ego won’t let him turn into a submissive little boot licker like Bannon after the break up. So there’s a better than average chance there will be a fight on social media between what is essentially two teenagers. And since neither will be able to let it go, it will probably last for the rest of Trump’s life.

Alefroth wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:49 pm

Grifman wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 8:31 am And yes, Musk's effectively the shadow president. We’ll see how long those two egos can co-exist.

Several lawmakers and former lawmakers have publicly referred to President Musk and Vice President Trump, I'm sure to accelerate the conflict between the two.

Alefroth wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:37 pm

Grifman wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:34 pm For maybe the first time I will applaud Trump for something - he wants to get rid of the meaningless debt limit:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna184820

This is something the Dems should get behind.

They don't need it as a hostage anymore, so better to kill it than let the Dems use it as a hostage.

Also, deficit spending bad when Dems do it, okay when Republicans do it.

Grifman wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 12:23 am

Alefroth wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:37 pm

Grifman wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:34 pm For maybe the first time I will applaud Trump for something - he wants to get rid of the meaningless debt limit:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna184820

This is something the Dems should get behind.

They don't need it as a hostage anymore, so better to kill it than let the Dems use it as a hostage.

Also, deficit spending bad when Dems do it, okay when Republicans do it.

Yes, but long term this is better for the country as a whole, and the Republicans have constantly used it to harass Democratic presidents. It’s best gone.

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 12:06 pm This morning, my boss asked me to send him a list of the business I had that would be "at risk" in January if the government shut down. Told him my entire month of revenue would simply vanish if there's a 30-day shutdown, so prepare accordingly.

I used to panic about those sort of requests, but I realized I simply don't care anymore. I'm completely just numb to it now. My paycheck disappears? Oh well...not much I can do. I've got some $$ stashed so I won't starve.

I especially love when I get a call from the brand new VP of sales asking me, "What are you proactively doing to mitigate this risk?". Um...literally nothing at all? I sell training to federal employees and training cannot happen if the federal agencies are shut down and no one who is supposed to attend is allowed to work. What the fuck do you expect me to do about that? She stammered something about "ensuring that we don't put all our eggs in one basket" before rushing off the call. LOL, ok.

Other lawmakers exiting the session said they expected a one vote on a government funding package, disaster relief and payments to farmers, minus a debt ceiling increase that caused Republicans to oppose a similar bill on Thursday.

Speaker Mike Johnson exited a closed meeting with House Republicans and said he intended to move forward with legislation today, though he said some details remain to be worked out. “There is unanimous agreement in the room that we need to move forward,” he told reporters. “We will not have a government shutdown, and we will meet our obligations.”

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 4:00 pm I feel like all this other stuff is noise and the only thing that really matters is how they're going to propose handling the debt ceiling.

While we wait to find out wtf the Republicans are gonna do here, some notes on the debt limit situation and House Republican leadership's internal plan, posted by Axios' Juliegrace Brufke

The key word is "mandatory" spending, which refers to money already spent, by law. 75% of mandatory spending is spent on Social Security and Medicare, which are $3.1 Trillion this year. This draft agreement amounts to cutting 80% of Social Security and Medicare.