Octopus Overlords

Trigg, what pages (between what n what) is it that you said I spiked?

triggercut wrote:

Remus West wrote:Also, well done Unagi. Amazing.

bb2112, why did you let me get away with faking your role so long? I understand the death without speaking because you went from low votes to dead in no time flat but why let it go at all?

That was the turning point in the game.

Village never recovered.

Game is won if he speaks up.

While this is one point, I would contend there were many. 1st being that everyone assumed RW was the seer because of a lack of a counter claim, without looking how far we were into the game or other circumstances. I still don't get why everyone thought a seer coming out on day 2 with no votes on them was a good idea. And what I find even funnier is that these are the same people that are saying they knew it was Unagi all along. 20/20 hindsight. 2nd was trusting RW's lead to the point to where when he then called for specials to out themselves, most everyone did. 3rd was driving the vote up on me so fast. Believe me, if I got to 7 votes, I was going to squawk, but never got the chance. And those were all in the first two days. There were plenty of other things that happened later that could have turned around this perfect storm.

I have thought about this a lot since it happened. Maybe I should have seen the village was going to insanely believe that a seer would come out on day 2 when the game was far from over, and make the village believe outing every special was a good idea. Or that the village was going to kill me quickly before I had a chance to speak when I was at 4 out of 10 votes. And there are a whole lot of other weird circumstances I could add, but you can go to the spoiler forum and read my remarks there, if you care. But even now, after having just lived it, I still have a hard time believing it all fell that way. And again, you Monday morning quarterbacks can all say "well, you should have seen it coming," I didn't. I can't. It is just too far fetched. (Yeah, I know, Mara Jade.) However, I'm being honest with myself when I say, faced with the same set of circumstances, I would do it again the same way.

I also find the perspective amusing. Go read the wolf forum during the time period when RW came out and didn't get countered.

triggercut wrote:

Remus West wrote:Also, well done Unagi. Amazing.

bb2112, why did you let me get away with faking your role so long? I understand the death without speaking because you went from low votes to dead in no time flat but why let it go at all?

That was the turning point in the game.

Village never recovered.

Game is won if he speaks up.

Certainly once the medium was outed and duped by the fake seer, the real seer was in big trouble.

Truly though, our kill of bb2112,was pretty lucky, but the medium just jumped willingly into our lap, and that was critical.

Imagine a seanced seer with news on Lassr.
Talk about a recovery.

Unagi wrote:

RMC wrote:And you all offed me...Told you it was Unagi...sheesh..

IIRC, I think you were in a position to end it... but since I was playing and you were passive - fail.

Actually as I got more active, you turned it into me behaving differently and everyone else bit on that. <shrug> I am never a strong player, and I figured you would get lynched after me..

Ah well, I had fun.

Unagi wrote: The early votes on bb2112 were mostly made by legit humans, and one wolf that was doing it as the most human thing he would do. If I wasn't a wolf, I'd have placed that vote on bb21122. So did Lassr. So did LM. And all for the same real reason: because we felt things he did in the game warranted a lynch.

And what got me lynched was trying to move the game along that was stagnating to lynch Purge. When Baktosh came back Wolf LM was crying I was trying to steer the village away from Baktosh. My posts came first! The Baktosh train came after. But nobody would listen to me. Everyone listened to Unagi. I've said this before, and Stess even said it again earlier, there are a few people that have a lot of power and can sway the village. Unagi, Grund, and RW are three of the best. Lassr and Q can to some extent, although this game sure didn't show it for Lassr.

RMC wrote:Actually as I got more active, you turned it into me behaving differently and everyone else bit on that.

that's basically what I meant by that.

RMC wrote:

Unagi wrote:

RMC wrote:And you all offed me...Told you it was Unagi...sheesh..

IIRC, I think you were in a position to end it... but since I was playing and you were passive - fail.

Actually as I got more active, you turned it into me behaving differently and everyone else bit on that. <shrug> I am never a strong player, and I figured you would get lynched after me..

Ah well, I had fun.

RMC, don't be so hard on yourself. I saw huge improvements in your play this game. You were actually right quite a lot. I guess I can't go back to the old bit where you are always wrong anymore.

Unagi wrote:Trigg, what pages (between what n what) is it that you said I spiked?

Between the pages I started looking at, and the pages I stopped.

Unagi wrote:

triggercut wrote:

Remus West wrote:Also, well done Unagi. Amazing.

bb2112, why did you let me get away with faking your role so long? I understand the death without speaking because you went from low votes to dead in no time flat but why let it go at all?

That was the turning point in the game.

Village never recovered.

Game is won if he speaks up.

Certainly once the medium was outed and duped by the fake seer, the real seer was in big trouble.

Truly though, our kill of bb2112,was pretty lucky, but the medium just jumped willingly into our lap, and that was critical.

Imagine a seanced seer with news on Lassr.
Talk about a recovery.

Imagine knowing Lassr was cleared and good, proven upon Remus coming up a fake Seer.

Cuts both ways.

Nice game, y'all. Congrats, wolves.

A kudos to Unagi. Feels good, doesn't it?

test a fake seer scans


always

I just realized that, as the sorcerer, I also won! Hooray for our side even though I was eaten first night!!

Grundbegriff wrote:

Nice game, y'all. Congrats, wolves.

A kudos to Unagi. Feels good, doesn't it?

The interplay between Remus killing people before they can talk and Unagi berating him for it TWICE was masterful and the reason I didn't "scoop" Unagi.

I was lost the whole game. It makes sense the last guy I thought was the wolf, was the wolf.

I need to stick to playing as a bad guy every game. At least the pain ends quickly.

tru1cy wrote:test a fake seer scans


always

You do realize that the reason I named Unagi is because I could not think of a single game we have played when the fake Seer named multiple partners as good, don't you? Every single other game we have played your little "test the fake seer scans" would have led to misses. I banked on folks knowing their history. When Lassr called out exactly what I had done I was amazed.

Holman wrote:I just realized that, as the sorcerer, I also won! Hooray for our side even though I was eaten first night!!

Best game you've ever played.

Remus West wrote:

tru1cy wrote:test a fake seer scans


always

You do realize that the reason I named Unagi is because I could not think of a single game we have played when the fake Seer named multiple partners as good, don't you? Every single other game we have played your little "test the fake seer scans" would have led to misses. I banked on folks knowing their history. When Lassr called out exactly what I had done I was amazed.

My feeling--and I saw that you were a fake seer and that I was dead at pretty much the exact same moment and hadn't joined the spoiler forum and wanted to give stessier my best guesses first--was that coming forward as a Seer when there wasn't really any suspicion on you anyway...well. That was such a "what the hell, we're losing, might as well just go for it" kind of audacious, crazy-awesome play. And once you realize that Remus basically had already pulled off this crazy "You should never, not ever do THIS" ploy in the game, I thought it was for certain that your "scans" had to have at least one or more of your teammates in them.

I guess what I mean by that, it isn't logical that you'd make that bold and aggressive (and brilliant, fankly) play like that and then get cautious and wussy on your scan targets. I read it as a whole "Remus stomps on the accelerator, everyone hold on!" play. I think it only makes sense that you'd be that bold and crazy in your scans as well.

Holman wrote:I just realized that, as the sorcerer, I also won! Hooray for our side even though I was eaten first night!!

Your input was pivotal to the outcome of the game.

I think the wolves were vastly outgunned this game, and pulled off a tremendous win. The village got lazy, but that doesn't diminish the heroic effort of the wolf team (actually Remus and Unagi, since purge and Bakhtosh couldn't participate much for various reasons). Well-deserved, guys.

In a game this size, there should be five - or even six - wolves.

Remus West wrote:

tru1cy wrote:test a fake seer scans


always

You do realize that the reason I named Unagi is because I could not think of a single game we have played when the fake Seer named multiple partners as good, don't you? Every single other game we have played your little "test the fake seer scans" would have led to misses. I banked on folks knowing their history. When Lassr called out exactly what I had done I was amazed.

this still doesn't change my thought on this.

Remus West wrote: When Lassr called out exactly what I had done I was amazed.

and the reason I thought of that was because it was you. If it had been some others faking seer I probably would not have gone down that road. You are a sneaky bastard! I say that with a lot of love.

triggercut wrote: That was such a "what the hell, we're losing, might as well just go for it" kind of audacious, crazy-awesome play. And once you realize that Remus basically had already pulled off this crazy "You should never, not ever do THIS" ploy in the game, I thought it was for certain that your "scans" had to have at least one or more of your teammates in them.

I guess what I mean by that, it isn't logical that you'd make that bold and aggressive (and brilliant, fankly) play like that and then get cautious and wussy on your scan targets. I read it as a whole "Remus stomps on the accelerator, everyone hold on!" play. I think it only makes sense that you'd be that bold and crazy in your scans as well.

Well put and that mirrors my thinking also although I thought Remus had to be the seer at first because it was SUCH a bold move and no one had countered him even though it went against common sense to come out at that time. Once it was revealed he was faking then my mind started churning these hail mary theories

Excellent job by the wolf team - and excellent job of being evil.

I wonder what would have happened if I'd not misread/remembered the vote count was five when Unagi was at four. I was pretty sure it was between Unagi and RMC, and I made the mistake of switching to RMC.

Thanks Stessier for running this. I found it a very interesting experience as the Mentalist.

redrun wrote:Thanks Stessier for running this. I found it a very interesting experience as the Mentalist.

Oh, big question I forgot to ask you - Why did you burn a Night Talk by recontacting Lagom rather than just telling the whole thread what Qantaga said? I could never come up with a reason for that.

stessier wrote:

redrun wrote:Thanks Stessier for running this. I found it a very interesting experience as the Mentalist.

Oh, big question I forgot to ask you - Why did you burn a Night Talk by recontacting Lagom rather than just telling the whole thread what Qantaga said? I could never come up with a reason for that.

A. To keep some doubt as to my real role.
B. To allow the Cabelists to scan BB2112 and see what additional information we could gain. I'm glad we did so, but I'd suggest in the future that team good not be so quick to reveal the knowledge - I'd like to have seen what Remus had to say at at the start of the day, and I'd like to how folks reacted to a push to have Remus killed (shot preferred, lynch OK) during the day.

In the end I was sorta glad I did it that way - it made me question why I was still alive, and Unagi looked the best choice as to why.

I shoot Remus again.

Chaosraven wrote:I shoot Remus again.

I take Chaosraven's gun away from him, reload it, and give it back to him.

stessier wrote:

redrun wrote:Thanks Stessier for running this. I found it a very interesting experience as the Mentalist.

Oh, big question I forgot to ask you - Why did you burn a Night Talk by recontacting Lagom rather than just telling the whole thread what Qantaga said? I could never come up with a reason for that.

Well, from a wolf's point of view - that was actually smart, because we assumed that Qantaga was still a big


LOL
I mean, if they told everyone - then tru1cy wouldn't have been able to point a finger at Unagi because he gave the Perfectly Correct Advice to scan Qantaga over BB2112.

Grundbegriff wrote:Nice game, y'all. Congrats, wolves.

A kudos to Unagi. Feels good, doesn't it?

Thank you.

sigh... it sorta feels good. Being DONE feels the best. Winning always makes me feel a little guilty. (as a big lying wolf)

Lagom Lite wrote:I think the wolves were vastly outgunned this game, and pulled off a tremendous win. The village got lazy, but that doesn't diminish the heroic effort of the wolf team (actually Remus and Unagi, since purge and Bakhtosh couldn't participate much for various reasons). Well-deserved, guys.

Much thanks.

It sucked.

Yes Unagi, you out gooded me in this game. I got lynched and you didn't. Excellent job....dammit.

Unagi wrote:

stessier wrote:

redrun wrote:Thanks Stessier for running this. I found it a very interesting experience as the Mentalist.

Oh, big question I forgot to ask you - Why did you burn a Night Talk by recontacting Lagom rather than just telling the whole thread what Qantaga said? I could never come up with a reason for that.

Well, from a wolf's point of view - that was actually smart, because we assumed that Qantaga was still a big


LOL
I mean, if they told everyone - then tru1cy wouldn't have been able to point a finger at Unagi because he gave the Perfectly Correct Advice to scan Qantaga over BB2112.

Yeah, I felt like the village was really free with their information in this game. Anything a group of players knows that the wolves do not is an advantage to the village to keep to themselves, imo. A group is in no danger of being eliminated and losing the information. If redrun tells the whole group that Q told him he was a villager then we have an extra piece of the puzzle to work with.

Remus West wrote:

Unagi wrote:

stessier wrote:

redrun wrote:Thanks Stessier for running this. I found it a very interesting experience as the Mentalist.

Oh, big question I forgot to ask you - Why did you burn a Night Talk by recontacting Lagom rather than just telling the whole thread what Qantaga said? I could never come up with a reason for that.

Well, from a wolf's point of view - that was actually smart, because we assumed that Qantaga was still a big


LOL
I mean, if they told everyone - then tru1cy wouldn't have been able to point a finger at Unagi because he gave the Perfectly Correct Advice to scan Qantaga over BB2112.

Yeah, I felt like the village was really free with their information in this game. Anything a group of players knows that the wolves do not is an advantage to the village to keep to themselves, imo. A group is in no danger of being eliminated and losing the information. If redrun tells the whole group that Q told him he was a villager then we have an extra piece of the puzzle to work with.

Except that it limited his nightly visits. Why wasn't there a means to relay who he had visited and what he had found without a return visit? Why didn't the Cabal have ways to communicate during the day to coordinate their votes without being obvious? It might have been useful the day their leader came out but they weren't willing to.

Wow. What a game. This was like the Bills comeback against the Oilers.

Congratulations to Team Wolf, especially to Unagi. To survive that many lynches was masterful. Very well played!!

Also, a perfectly timed and executed spoof by Remus, against all odds.

Congratulations to stess on running a great game. Thanks for all your time and effort to guide a classic game.

Monday Morning Quarterback observations:

- I was surprised that no one pressed Remus the day after I died. I realize Remus was uncontested at that time (it was the next day that bb was revealed to be the Seer). However, at that time, Remus had claimed Seer and trig had revealed as Medium. Remus had even run the numbers that showed the game was almost locked down with two more Seer scans. If Remus were truly the Seer, the wolves would have HAD to go after either Remus or trig that night, even if they were blocked, or it would have been game over. As soon as I died, I PMed stess (and I was unspoiled until game's end) that my death meant Remus must be a wolf because the only logical explanation for my death was that the wolves were still looking for the Seer. However, other than a "Why Q?" post or two, no one seriously pursued that path.

- I think the big, early lead by the village worked against us. With so many misses available, it didn't feel (from the outside looking in, of course) like anyone was doing any deep "investigating." It was sort of a "we don't have to look too hard, because we'll eventually hit the wolf anyway" atmosphere. That's not a knock on anyone, just the natural psychology (much like the above mentioned Oilers) that arises from such a big, early advantage.

- I was a little frustrated by all the "vote me out today, so I won't be a distraction in the late game" posts. At least four players said that, maybe more. If you're a villager, keep fighting the good fight and trying to find the wolves instead of volunteering to be lynched. As Lassr found out, just because you're lynched and come back villager, it doesn't mean anyone is going to rally around your theory anyway. So, fight to stay alive and not to give the wolves a sure miss. (IMHO).

It was a fun game to play and to watch. Thanks to all who played for such an enjoyable game and for one that will go down as a classic in OOWW lore.

Unagi wrote:

triggercut wrote:Doing that, you and Vorret stood out like like a full moon on a winter's night.

This sounds a lot like Theohall's theory on the early voters on Bb2112.

When you have some random test/filter and it nets you a wolf, you insist you got yourself a wolf detector.

Next game, that might have caught Vorret and Lassr.

The early votes on bb2112 were mostly made by legit humans, and one wolf that was doing it as the most human thing he would do. If I wasn't a wolf, I'd have placed that vote on bb21122. So did Lassr. So did LM. And all for the same real reason: because we felt things he did in the game warranted a lynch.

But theohalll will sit their and insist it was an accurate wolf 'catch'. It just really wasn't.


You may think that a post spike after a LL announcement is exactly where you will catch wolves, but it's just a random check point, and a wolf passed through it.
So did Vorret.

Now I need to go back and read that part of the game and see what I was chatty about.

It would have caught you, right? No matter how many times it was mentioned to lynch the three, it never happened.

Qantaga wrote:
- I think the big, early lead by the village worked against us. With so many misses available, it didn't feel (from the outside looking in, of course) like anyone was doing any deep "investigating."

Really, did you read any of my posts? I had re-read numerous times and used the search function to read the progress of each individuals posts through out the game. I kept coming back to Unagi. I kept saying his demeanor was different but it is hard to post every quote he said to prove my point.

So I wouldn't do anything different than I did in this game except maybe find time to put my Unagi story together before I got lynched on my last day but it didn't happen.
and I can't help it that once the village found out I was good that they did not then go back and look at what I was saying. When everyone gets the idea that I may be bad then they tend to tune out what I say. I've seen it in several games and that makes it very frustrating for me and I wonder why put in the effort. So if I'm dead maybe they can refocus their attention in the proper place. Didn't happen/

So in the next game when I am fighting to stay alive I hope no one says that is wolfish behavior because you know they will.

Lassr wrote: So in the next game when I am fighting to stay alive I hope no one says that is wolfish behavior because you know they will.

Now you did it. They will most likely kill you day 1 now.

Lassr wrote:

Qantaga wrote:
- I think the big, early lead by the village worked against us. With so many misses available, it didn't feel (from the outside looking in, of course) like anyone was doing any deep "investigating."

Really, did you read any of my posts? I had re-read numerous times and used the search function to read the progress of each individuals posts through out the game. I kept coming back to Unagi. I kept saying his demeanor was different but it is hard to post every quote he said to prove my point.

I was speaking of the more corporate village.

However, you are correct. You did do a great job of investigation/intuition, it's just a shame no one followed your lead. (Although, I still don't agree with the whole "kill me to remove me as a distraction" gambit).

You can hold your head high, knowing that you had found the wolf.

Qantaga wrote:(Although, I still don't agree with the whole "kill me to remove me as a distraction" gambit).

I only go that route when I truly am distracting people from finding the wolf. A few times I have done it as a wolf. I will not vote for myself though.

This game it just seemed like no one was listening to me so I was getting frustrated.

Lassr wrote:

Qantaga wrote:(Although, I still don't agree with the whole "kill me to remove me as a distraction" gambit).

I only go that route when I truly am distracting people from finding the wolf. A few times I have done it as a wolf. I will not vote for myself though.

This game it just seemed like no one was listening to me so I was getting frustrated.

Same here. And I really thought that when I was lynched as villager that people would look at who I was pushing for.