IceBear wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:03 pm
Scary thought...what if Trump is right and tariffs work for the US?
I've read that he expects the Treasury to get more money as a result to fund more tax cuts. That could happen... It's just that Americans will be paying it, not foreign countries. So then it's just a question of Americans caring that they are essentially paying for tax cuts they don't participate in.
Yeah, the average American will pay the tariffs that fund tax cuts for the rich and corporations. I think the leopards are eating faces again, and the antelope are too stupid to realize it.
The other thing is, this is a huge economic experiment and gamble. Trump is basically staking his presidency on it, and the GOP is staking the mid terms and the next presidential elections on it. And the odds are, this is going to be bad, and perhaps even disastrous. The last thing politicians of all stripes want is uncertainty, but the GOP is going all in and betting the house on this. I still can't believe that a cadre of GOP leaders didn't get together and try to talk Trump out of this. To me, it's just crazy from a political standpoint. But that's where MAGA has taken us.
Hooked on Trumponics - Or How I Learned to Say Bigly
IceBear wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:03 pm
Scary thought...what if Trump is right and tariffs work for the US?
I've read that he expects the Treasury to get more money as a result to fund more tax cuts. That could happen... It's just that Americans will be paying it, not foreign countries. So then it's just a question of Americans caring that they are essentially paying for tax cuts they don't participate in.
Yeah, the average American will pay the tariffs that fund tax cuts for the rich and corporations. I think the leopards are eating faces again, and the antelope are too stupid to realize it.
The other thing is, this is a huge economic experiment and gamble. Trump is basically staking his presidency on it, and the GOP is staking the mid terms and the next presidential elections on it. And the odds are, this is going to be bad, and perhaps even disastrous. The last thing politicians of all stripes want is uncertainty, but the GOP is going all in and betting the house on this. I still can't believe that a cadre of GOP leaders didn't get together and try to talk Trump out of this. To me, it's just crazy from a political standpoint. But that's where MAGA has taken us.
As always, assuming fair and transparent elections. If you rig the game so you can't lose, then consequences stop being a thing.
Re: Trumponics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
IceBear wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:03 pm
Scary thought...what if Trump is right and tariffs work for the US?
I've read that he expects the Treasury to get more money as a result to fund more tax cuts. That could happen... It's just that Americans will be paying it, not foreign countries. So then it's just a question of Americans caring that they are essentially paying for tax cuts they don't participate in.
Yeah, the average American will pay the tariffs that fund tax cuts for the rich and corporations. I think the leopards are eating faces again, and the antelope are too stupid to realize it.
The other thing is, this is a huge economic experiment and gamble. Trump is basically staking his presidency on it, and the GOP is staking the mid terms and the next presidential elections on it. And the odds are, this is going to be bad, and perhaps even disastrous. The last thing politicians of all stripes want is uncertainty, but the GOP is going all in and betting the house on this. I still can't believe that a cadre of GOP leaders didn't get together and try to talk Trump out of this. To me, it's just crazy from a political standpoint. But that's where MAGA has taken us.
As always, assuming fair and transparent elections. If you rig the game so you can't lose, then consequences stop being a thing.
Yeah. Plus if it tanks the economy, just take over the banks, kill the Fed and if there is any objection, martial law.
Re: Trumponics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:31 pm
by Alefroth
Victoria Raverna wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:49 pm
It is like implement a sales tax to cut income tax. Good for the rich, bad for those that have to spend almost all of their income every month.
I'm anticipating some version of the Fair tax to be implemented before too long.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 4:30 am
by stessier
Interesting look on what removing the de minimus exception means practically.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 8:47 am
by LordMortis
stessier wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 4:30 am
Interesting look on what removing the de minimus exception means practically.
I did know that... Fascinating. Badly enough if it gives the GOP administration some footing... but...
I will also say if he ever decides to lie to me, I'd be in trouble. Hank is so well trained in his thought and communicating it, I can't possibly ever see how he'd be less than straight with me. My critical thinking skills are this >< big compared to his.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 pm
by gilraen
Most Canadian provinces are pulling U.S.-produced alcohol from the store shelves starting tomorrow. That's estimated to wipe out about 45% of U.S. booze export market.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:42 pm
by waitingtoconnect
Mexico has apparently “caved” according to the media by sending 10,000 troops to the border although it’s fairly obvious intense lobbying by us companies and the crashing stock market has made trump walk back.
Not good for Canada. Seems all that talk of unity from Mexico was just talk.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:42 pm
by IceBear
Mexico managed to avoid tariffs for 1 month by putting troops on the border. Trump complained about no US banks in Canada (mainly because we have regulations to prevent banks from collapsing) when speaking with Trudeau this morning and there's apparently another call at 3pm. Hopefully something can be worked out...heck I'll volunteer to stand at our border if it'll help appease him
Also, we do allow US banking services here...think most Visa cards, etc, but it's not nothing.
Hoping we can come to some arrangement like Mexico
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:43 pm
by Smoove_B
Here's the news link for how Trump caved to Mexico.
The largest exporter in Mexico, for example, is the U.S. car company General Motors. Mexico is the No. 1 provider of cars and car parts for the United States. It's the largest provider of TV and computer screens and one out of every three refrigerators in the U.S. comes from Mexico.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:44 pm
by waitingtoconnect
Trump is trying to walk it back for for his conservative troll farms on Reddit and Fox News and it needs to look like he’s beaten Canada up.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:44 pm
by stessier
He also announced that the European Union will be next for tariffs.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:44 pm
by Isgrimnur
Smoove_B wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:43 pm
Here's the news link for how Trump caved to Mexico.
The largest exporter in Mexico, for example, is the U.S. car company General Motors. Mexico is the No. 1 provider of cars and car parts for the United States. It's the largest provider of TV and computer screens and one out of every three refrigerators in the U.S. comes from Mexico.
The largest exporter in Mexico, for example, is the U.S. car company General Motors. Mexico is the No. 1 provider of cars and car parts for the United States. It's the largest provider of TV and computer screens and one out of every three refrigerators in the U.S. comes from Mexico.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Smoove_B wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:43 pm
Here's the news link for how Trump caved to Mexico.
The largest exporter in Mexico, for example, is the U.S. car company General Motors. Mexico is the No. 1 provider of cars and car parts for the United States. It's the largest provider of TV and computer screens and one out of every three refrigerators in the U.S. comes from Mexico.
The largest exporter in Mexico, for example, is the U.S. car company General Motors. Mexico is the No. 1 provider of cars and car parts for the United States. It's the largest provider of TV and computer screens and one out of every three refrigerators in the U.S. comes from Mexico.
BAM'd during the quote.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:50 pm
by Isgrimnur
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:03 pm
by Hyena
waitingtoconnect wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:42 pm
Mexico has apparently “caved” according to the media by sending 10,000 troops to the border although it’s fairly obvious intense lobbying by us companies and the crashing stock market has made trump walk back.
Not good for Canada. Seems all that talk of unity from Mexico was just talk.
I hate that optics are that he won this round. I hate that his mafioso tactics forced their hand, and I hate that two of our allies are being forced to shore up their borders against us. And I say that because on the surface it's to "quell the flow of bad things" into the US, but in reality it wouldn't surprise me if they're afraid he's going to do something unhinged.
He's like a rescue dog that's attacked people before. You maintain your distance, but you still talk nicely to him. Basically, pretending to give the animal space but in reality it's because you don't want your face eaten off.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
waitingtoconnect wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:42 pm
Mexico has apparently “caved” according to the media by sending 10,000 troops to the border although it’s fairly obvious intense lobbying by us companies and the crashing stock market has made trump walk back.
Not good for Canada. Seems all that talk of unity from Mexico was just talk.
I hate that optics are that he won this round. I hate that his mafioso tactics forced their hand, and I hate that two of our allies are being forced to shore up their borders against us. And I say that because on the surface it's to "quell the flow of bad things" into the US, but in reality it wouldn't surprise me if they're afraid he's going to do something unhinged.
He's like a rescue dog that's attacked people before. You maintain your distance, but you still talk nicely to him. Basically, pretending to give the animal space but in reality it's because you don't want your face eaten off.
But isn't this exactly the appeasement policy that Neville Chamberlain tried pre-WW2? I get that a tariff war will hurt both sides, but I don't think Trump is gonna stop until he "tariff threatens" everyone into getting what he wants. And even then I don't think he'll be appeased. Trump will be all "I want this to happen. Or tariffs." then "I want this to happen. Or tariffs".
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
He's like a rescue dog that's attacked people before. You maintain your distance, but you still talk nicely to him. Basically, pretending to give the animal space but in reality it's because you don't want your face eaten off.
That's really unfair to ill-behaved curs.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
waitingtoconnect wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:42 pm
Mexico has apparently “caved” according to the media by sending 10,000 troops to the border although it’s fairly obvious intense lobbying by us companies and the crashing stock market has made trump walk back.
Not good for Canada. Seems all that talk of unity from Mexico was just talk.
I hate that optics are that he won this round. I hate that his mafioso tactics forced their hand, and I hate that two of our allies are being forced to shore up their borders against us. And I say that because on the surface it's to "quell the flow of bad things" into the US, but in reality it wouldn't surprise me if they're afraid he's going to do something unhinged.
He's like a rescue dog that's attacked people before. You maintain your distance, but you still talk nicely to him. Basically, pretending to give the animal space but in reality it's because you don't want your face eaten off.
But isn't this exactly the appeasement policy that Neville Chamberlain tried pre-WW2? I get that a tariff war will hurt both sides, but I don't think Trump is gonna stop until he "tariff threatens" everyone into getting what he wants. And even then I don't think he'll be appeased. Trump will be all "I want this to happen. Or tariffs." then "I want this to happen. Or tariffs".
It’s not appeasement. Mexico clearly won.
Trump is the one backing down. The media is making it look like he won of course. A ten thousand man deployment on a 2000+ mile border will do nothing . Thats Mexicos only concession. A concession they apparently offered before trump put up the tariffs.
Mexico even got a concession from the US, with illegal guns now being cracked down on. A concession the US has traditionally refused because second amendment
American companies and others talked trump back because the stock market was tanking.
Trump actually lost. But it’s not being painted this way.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
waitingtoconnect wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:42 pm
Mexico has apparently “caved” according to the media by sending 10,000 troops to the border although it’s fairly obvious intense lobbying by us companies and the crashing stock market has made trump walk back.
Not good for Canada. Seems all that talk of unity from Mexico was just talk.
I hate that optics are that he won this round. I hate that his mafioso tactics forced their hand, and I hate that two of our allies are being forced to shore up their borders against us. And I say that because on the surface it's to "quell the flow of bad things" into the US, but in reality it wouldn't surprise me if they're afraid he's going to do something unhinged.
He's like a rescue dog that's attacked people before. You maintain your distance, but you still talk nicely to him. Basically, pretending to give the animal space but in reality it's because you don't want your face eaten off.
But isn't this exactly the appeasement policy that Neville Chamberlain tried pre-WW2? I get that a tariff war will hurt both sides, but I don't think Trump is gonna stop until he "tariff threatens" everyone into getting what he wants. And even then I don't think he'll be appeased. Trump will be all "I want this to happen. Or tariffs." then "I want this to happen. Or tariffs".
It’s not appeasement. Mexico clearly won.
Trump is the one backing down. The media is making it look like he won of course. A ten thousand man deployment on a 2000+ mile border will do nothing . Thats Mexicos only concession. A concession they apparently offered before trump put up the tariffs.
Mexico even got a concession from the US, with illegal guns now being cracked down on. A concession the US has traditionally refused because second amendment
American companies and others talked trump back because the stock market was tanking.
Trump actually lost. But it’s not being painted this way.
Thank you for this explanation. It makes me feel a bit better about it all.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
He's like a rescue dog that's attacked people before. You maintain your distance, but you still talk nicely to him. Basically, pretending to give the animal space but in reality it's because you don't want your face eaten off.
That's really unfair to ill-behaved curs.
Fair enough. How about lions at a safari? Or a leopard?
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:54 pm
by IceBear
I don't think he'll take a deal from Canada as much as I hope he does. He spoke with Trudeau this morning before the Mexican president and at least he agreed to speak with him again at 3pm, so *maybe* He needs to punish someone and Canada is his punching bag, especially with Trudeau as the current PM. I would like to think that if we allow US banks into Canada and put some of our troops on the border that he would call it a win.
He's still saying this is about drugs (and maybe that's true for Mexico) but given the limited amount coming through Canada I find it hard to believe. Our politicians believe, based on what has been said that it's about taking us over, whereas the White House keeps sticking to that story:
The White House said on Monday it has noticed that Mexico is “serious” about Trump’s executive order on tariffs but Canada has “misunderstood” it.
“The good news is that in our conversations over the weekend, one of the things we’ve noticed is that Mexicans are very, very serious about doing what President Trump said,” White House National Economic Council Director Kevin Hasset said on CNBC.
“Canadians appear to have misunderstood the plain language of the executive order,” Hasset added.
When asked what Canada and Mexico must do to lift their tariffs, Trump told reporters on Sunday they have to balance out their trade, number one.
“They’ve got to stop people from pouring into our country ... they have to stop people pouring in, and we have to stop fentanyl. And that includes China,” Trump said.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:56 pm
by waitingtoconnect
Legally he had to declare an emergency to apply tariffs. I want to annex Canada isn’t an emergency.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:02 pm
by Alefroth
gilraen wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 pm
Most Canadian provinces are pulling U.S.-produced alcohol from the store shelves starting tomorrow. That's estimated to wipe out about 45% of U.S. booze export market.
That's all the provocation Hegseth needs.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:04 pm
by Alefroth
waitingtoconnect wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:42 pm
Mexico has apparently “caved” according to the media by sending 10,000 troops to the border although it’s fairly obvious intense lobbying by us companies and the crashing stock market has made trump walk back.
Not good for Canada. Seems all that talk of unity from Mexico was just talk.
Biden got Mexico to send troops to the border in 2021 without any tariff games.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:20 pm
by Rumpy
gilraen wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 pm
Most Canadian provinces are pulling U.S.-produced alcohol from the store shelves starting tomorrow. That's estimated to wipe out about 45% of U.S. booze export market.
Yeah, I have to say, hearing about American booze taken off the shelves feels very surreal. No California wines, no Jack Daniels, etc. These have been on our shelves my entire life. And then I have to wonder about the macro beers, as most of these come from multinational companies, Molson-Coors being just one example. And being that some restauraunt chains only ever serve Macro beers from these breweries, makes me wonder what will happen. But it does show how closely linked our companies are.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
gilraen wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 pm
Most Canadian provinces are pulling U.S.-produced alcohol from the store shelves starting tomorrow. That's estimated to wipe out about 45% of U.S. booze export market.
That's all the provocation Hegseth needs.
Counterpoint: It means there's a lot more bourbon for Pete.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
gilraen wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 pm
Most Canadian provinces are pulling U.S.-produced alcohol from the store shelves starting tomorrow. That's estimated to wipe out about 45% of U.S. booze export market.
Yeah, I have to say, hearing about American booze taken off the shelves feels very surreal. No California wines, no Jack Daniels, etc. These have been on our shelves my entire life. And then I have to wonder about the macro beers, as most of these come from multinational companies, Molson-Coors being just one example. And being that some restauraunt chains only ever serve Macro beers from these breweries, makes me wonder what will happen. But it does show how closely linked our companies are.
I'd expect that products that are actually produced in Canada will still be available. It's the stuff that is imported from US distilleries, wineries, etc that is being pulled.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
I'd expect that products that are actually produced in Canada will still be available. It's the stuff that is imported from US distilleries, wineries, etc that is being pulled.
Ahh well, good point. I still fear that means money going to the U.S. And we just happened to introduce beer to Costcos. Good timing.
He's still saying this is about drugs (and maybe that's true for Mexico) but given the limited amount coming through Canada I find it hard to believe. Our politicians believe, based on what has been said that it's about taking us over, whereas the White House keeps sticking to that story:
73 pounds of fentanyl to be exact. That's according to a recent amount that they stopped coming in. And we have a trade war over this....
As for Mexico, yeah that is full-on media spin. Same thing was done when Columbia smacked him down.
Somewhat hilariously, there's a company advertising hot water heaters on Facebook, advertising that they can deliver hot water heaters via Cybertruck to Canadians. Most of the comments point to the terrible timing and tone-deafness, telling them to read the room and fire their marketing manager. Wish I wish kidding This was likely approved long before Trump took office and events that followed, but I imagine the only thing they can really do is quickly pivot to a different strategy.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 3:01 pm
by stessier
gilraen wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 pm
Most Canadian provinces are pulling U.S.-produced alcohol from the store shelves starting tomorrow. That's estimated to wipe out about 45% of U.S. booze export market.
Why are they pulling it? There wouldn't be any tariff on what is already on the shelves. Would seem to be better to sell through the current stock and then just not re-order.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 3:05 pm
by Zarathud
Timing - retailers want to hoard stock for higher prices and maximize return. In the meantime they’re being proactive in getting consumers angry at politicians not them
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
gilraen wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 pm
Most Canadian provinces are pulling U.S.-produced alcohol from the store shelves starting tomorrow. That's estimated to wipe out about 45% of U.S. booze export market.
Why are they pulling it? There wouldn't be any tariff on what is already on the shelves. Would seem to be better to sell through the current stock and then just not re-order.
I suspect that it's a political statement aimed at Canadian voters ("Look, we're doing something!") more than anything else, at least with regard to the timing.
From what I've read, stock started flying off the shelf here as soon as the premiere announced that this would be one immediate response, so there might be less to stockpile in the warehouses than you'd think by now. Restaurants and bars in particular were stocking up while they can.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 3:24 pm
by Rumpy
Yeah, I suspect it will all disappear fairly quickly. And bars I assume will want to sell the stuff at a premium.
Re: Trumponomics - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying & Love Tariffs
I suspect his attack on Canada is more personal in nature as a poster noted above. I think he is upset about things that Trudeau had said about him in the past and is using this to get back at him. Canada is much less problematic than Mexico regarding illegal immigration and drugs.
My critical thinking skills are this >< big compared to his.
