To summarize: trust your gut over book learning but pray to god your cardiologist doesn’t.
Atlantis is real and they had warp drive ships.
Each year Trump isn’t in charge, 90 billion immigrants from a country with 200 million people arrive in our country illegally.
Climate change is fake and pollution is actually good for humans, animals and plants. Encourage your loved ones to run their cars in a closed garage for optimal health benefits.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:17 pm
by YellowKing
All politicians spin the facts to some extent to put their policies in the best possible light and their opponents in the worst possible light. But there's a big difference between political spin and telling people that babies are executed after birth. Trump's falsehoods go far beyond typical political fudging of numbers. He straight up denies reality. What's worse is he actually believes his lies. It's just an incredibly dangerous situation to put that kind of person in the position of most powerful person on earth.
em2nought wrote:Since then I think I've noticed an uptick in people wondering if so many sources promoted that lie for so long what else might be a lie.
Serious question - why do you care about honesty when you support a candidate who claims babies are being executed after they're born (false). Or claimed that 20 million immigrants entered the country last year (false, not even close). Or dozens of other claims that can be easily fact-checked and debunked?
Do you actually believe Trump is telling the truth, and the entire rest of the world is lying to you about the "facts," or do you just not care when he does it?
I'm seriously trying to get into the mindset of someone who believes stuff that can easily be fact-checked with just a few seconds of effort.
Yes, PLEASE answer that as honestly as you can. I would love to know so I can get possibly get some context into my Dad's brain since I have been dying to ask him this (but it always elevates to yelling before we get there).
Does anyone actually believe that politicians tell the truth? I just have to go with my gut on who I think we would be better under. I think lots of the problems that we have added since Trump was president might not be problems if he was still president. Most of my decisions are more gut based instead of based on the "supposed" facts because I don't trust most facts. Was Columbus the first European to find America? I don't think so. Were there highly technical skilled civilizations in our distant past? I think so. Will spending tons of cash to fight global warming have any effect other than to empty our pocketbooks? I don't think so. Maybe most things come down to what sources people believe. My primary source of knowledge for the first thirty years of my life was a world book encyclopedia from 1955.
I wish I could provide something that might improve your relationship with your father as it kind of feels like a heavy burden. Team democrat certainly can't really think Trump is akin to Hitler really? Just giving up that kind of idea might go a long way to smoothing things over. I can say that once my father was gone there are lots of things I'd give up in order to have some more time with him. Say more things that I never actually voiced. Just sit on the glider together on the back porch and watch the cardinals at the bird feeder together again. Sit on the couch and watch a Penn State game together again.
Dirty tongues and dirty feet on chicks are just my weird kink dislikes. Scraping the tongue does get rid of some odor though and makes it more healthy pink in color instead of looking like you have thrush. Strips cut off of something you laminate make excellent tongue scrapers if you're careful.
I think the actual claim is that around 20 million have illegally crossed the border since Biden was "elected" 3 & 1/2 years ago accounting for those we don't even know about.
The "couch" thing I haven't even seen yet. Have to go see what that's about.
em2nought wrote:Since then I think I've noticed an uptick in people wondering if so many sources promoted that lie for so long what else might be a lie.
Serious question - why do you care about honesty when you support a candidate who claims babies are being executed after they're born (false). Or claimed that 20 million immigrants entered the country last year (false, not even close). Or dozens of other claims that can be easily fact-checked and debunked?
Do you actually believe Trump is telling the truth, and the entire rest of the world is lying to you about the "facts," or do you just not care when he does it?
I'm seriously trying to get into the mindset of someone who believes stuff that can easily be fact-checked with just a few seconds of effort.
Yes, PLEASE answer that as honestly as you can. I would love to know so I can get possibly get some context into my Dad's brain since I have been dying to ask him this (but it always elevates to yelling before we get there).
Does anyone actually believe that politicians tell the truth? I just have to go with my gut on who I think we would be better under. I think lots of the problems that we have added since Trump was president might not be problems if he was still president. Most of my decisions are more gut based instead of based on the "supposed" facts because I don't trust most facts. Was Columbus the first European to find America? I don't think so. Were there highly technical skilled civilizations in our distant past? I think so. Will spending tons of cash to fight global warming have any effect other than to empty our pocketbooks? I don't think so. Maybe most things come down to what sources people believe. My primary source of knowledge for the first thirty years of my life was a world book encyclopedia from 1955.
I wish I could provide something that might improve your relationship with your father as it kind of feels like a heavy burden. Team democrat certainly can't really think Trump is akin to Hitler really? Just giving up that kind of idea might go a long way to smoothing things over. I can say that once my father was gone there are lots of things I'd give up in order to have some more time with him. Say more things that I never actually voiced. Just sit on the glider together on the back porch and watch the cardinals at the bird feeder together again. Sit on the couch and watch a Penn State game together again.
Dirty tongues and dirty feet on chicks are just my weird kink dislikes. Scraping the tongue does get rid of some odor though and makes it more healthy pink in color instead of looking like you have thrush. Strips cut off of something you laminate make excellent tongue scrapers if you're careful.
I think the actual claim is that around 20 million have illegally crossed the border since Biden was "elected" 3 & 1/2 years ago accounting for those we don't even know about.
The "couch" thing I haven't even seen yet. Have to go see what that's about.
OK, but why do you think Trump will be competent?
He was astonishingly incompetent the first time around. With control of both houses of congress and the Supreme ct, he got the Ryan tax cuts, and McConnell's supreme ct justices.
That's pretty much it. On his signature issue of immigration? Zero bills (oh, and he shit canned immigration reform again). No wall.
No infrastructure bill, no cybersecurity bill, a tariff war which was worse than what we had before. Oh and I haven't even touched on the incompetent pandemic response...
He was not a competent president, even if one ignores all the other stuff, and if you include his attempt to overthrow the election, he failed at the most basic Presidential duty, the will of the voters and the line of succession.
Bonus points, over the past 4 years, he's gotten even older and less competent.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:54 pm
by Alefroth
Pyperkub wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:48 pm
OK, but why do you think Trump will be competent?
Didn't he already answer that? Gut feeling.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:43 pm
by Isgrimnur
His gut has shit for brains.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:15 am
by em2nought
Alefroth wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:23 pm
You completely whiffed your chance.
If I didn't think finding any common ground was a lost cause I wouldn't have mentioned watching Penn State games with my father. I do hope people manage to resolve their relationships with their family members somehow though.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:42 am
by waitingtoconnect
at The Believers’ Summit 2024 in West Palm Beach, Florida, Trump told attendees that they “won’t have to” vote again after this election, saying “we’ll have it fixed so good”.
People need to for Kamala Harris or democracy ends. They aren’t even hiding it.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:50 am
by em2nought
waitingtoconnect wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:42 am
at The Believers’ Summit 2024 in West Palm Beach, Florida, Trump told attendees that they “won’t have to” vote again after this election, saying “we’ll have it fixed so good”.
I do wish he'd bring Vivek along with him to do all his speaking/translating for him. President Trump can just stand in the background pumping his fist in the air occasionally. Since Vivek is Jed Clampett's buddy he can speak for him too.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 7:19 am
by hepcat
So Biden has to go because he can’t speak well enough in debates and speeches, but Trump gets a pass. Got it.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 7:35 am
by em2nought
hepcat wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 7:19 am
So Biden has to go because he can’t speak well enough in debates and speeches, but Trump gets a pass. Got it.
I was happy to keep Biden along for the whole show. Trump's tongue is just attached to his brain in a manner that any fleeting thought that comes into his brain spills out. That and the more he talks the more he comes to believe his own hype. Might be some PTSD going on as it's not only verbal shots he needs to duck anymore.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:38 am
by hepcat
Great baseline you have for who should lead the country!
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:44 am
by YellowKing
I saw a great tweet talking about how Trump supporters like Trump because "he says what he means," then spend all their time re-framing what he actually meant.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:56 am
by hepcat
When you have to add the caveat "even though I know he's an asshole" to every attempt to praise him, you know you should reevaluate your life choices.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:22 am
by Unagi
What you guys hoped to find out was that:
"I don't think they are lies, I'm pretty sure it's true"
and
"Actually, I think Trump is a good guy and means well, he just gets a bad wrap"
What you are finding out:
"I know they are lies, I don't care"
and
"No, I get it - he's seriously horrible - I just don't give a shit."
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:25 am
by LawBeefaroni
Musk out there reposting deep fakes. Any remaining doubt about why he bought Twitter?
The billionaire owner of the social media platform X reposted a video that mimics Vice President Kamala Harris’s voice, without disclosing that it had been altered.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:28 am
by hepcat
Unagi wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:22 am
What you guys hoped to find out was that:
"I don't think they are lies, I'm pretty sure it's true"
and
"Actually, I think Trump is a good guy and means well, he just gets a bad wrap"
What you are finding out:
"I know they are lies, I don't care"
and
"No, I get it - he's seriously horrible - I just don't give a shit."
I think we believed either could be true.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:29 am
by Unagi
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:25 am
Musk out there reposting deep fakes. Any remaining doubt about why he bought Twitter?
The billionaire owner of the social media platform X reposted a video that mimics Vice President Kamala Harris’s voice, without disclosing that it had been altered.
It will be these stories that people should be pointing to when they want to show how the Media is going to try to hand us Donald Trump. This news should be front-page shit, but it will not even come up on MSM.
Unagi wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:22 am
What you guys hoped to find out was that:
"I don't think they are lies, I'm pretty sure it's true"
and
"Actually, I think Trump is a good guy and means well, he just gets a bad wrap"
What you are finding out:
"I know they are lies, I don't care"
and
"No, I get it - he's seriously horrible - I just don't give a shit."
I think we believed both could be true.
Fair enough, I'm not trying to actually say what we all thought (*not keep myself off the list of "you guys"...) I'm just trying to point out what we all thought we were maybe -just maybe- working with, while the replies we are getting make it pretty clear what we really have.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:31 am
by hepcat
Sorry, i edited my reply to be "either" as that was what I meant. My mistake.
And I don't believe anyone has delusions of em2 suddenly turning away from Trump after being presented with mountains of evidence that he's a despicable human being who cares only for himself and is using everyone to feed his narcissism. We know he's going to double down because that's all he's capable of. Growth is not an option for him. No, my friend, all of the replies are just attempts to lead him into a discussion about Vance fucking sofas.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:32 am
by Unagi
hepcat wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:31 am
Sorry, i edited my reply to be "either" as that was what I meant. My mistake.
no problem, I read it as that.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 11:12 am
by Isgrimnur
When you start talking about how bad Hitler is on April 29th, 1945, you don't get a pass.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 11:48 am
by Kraken
YellowKing wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:44 am
I saw a great tweet talking about how Trump supporters like Trump because "he says what he means," then spend all their time re-framing what he actually meant.
That's a good point. They're spinning the "never vote again" remark to mean that trump will entrench Christianity so deeply that us heathens won't ever be able to dislodge it...not that he'll cancel elections. Oh. Well, that's fine then.
YellowKing wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:44 am
I saw a great tweet talking about how Trump supporters like Trump because "he says what he means," then spend all their time re-framing what he actually meant.
That's a good point. They're spinning the "never vote again" remark to mean that trump will entrench Christianity so deeply that us heathens won't ever be able to dislodge it...not that he'll cancel elections. Oh. Well, that's fine then.
Whew an entrenched theocracy. That puts me at ease. I'm probably not the Christian they're looking for in their new world order though...
YellowKing wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:44 am
I saw a great tweet talking about how Trump supporters like Trump because "he says what he means," then spend all their time re-framing what he actually meant.
That's a good point. They're spinning the "never vote again" remark to mean that trump will entrench Christianity so deeply that us heathens won't ever be able to dislodge it...not that he'll cancel elections. Oh. Well, that's fine then.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:36 pm
by Alefroth
hepcat wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:38 am
Great baseline you have for who should lead the country!
His gut bacteria told him it's fine.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:40 pm
by Alefroth
$iljanus wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:09 pm
I'm probably not the Christian they're looking for in their new world order though...
Apparently neither is Trump.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:43 pm
by Victoria Raverna
I think Trump probably didn't mean he'll cancel elections. He probably just meant he doesn't need them to vote again because of term limit. If they vote for him and he win, it'll be his last term. So they don't need to vote again in 4 years. He doesn't care about them, he just want their votes so he can win and avoid possible jail time.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:46 pm
by Alefroth
Yeah, that's what he meant.
Where does this fit in to that interpretation?
"We'll have it fixed so good, you're not gonna have to vote."
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 1:04 pm
by YellowKing
As has been said many, many times with Trump, "When someone tells you who they are, believe them." He's never, ever given us any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 1:05 pm
by LordMortis
"After this one election, if you do your part, we'll fix the vote so good you won't have to vote any longer" is exactly how I hear it.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 1:26 pm
by Skinypupy
hepcat wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:31 am
And I don't believe anyone has delusions of em2 suddenly turning away from Trump after being presented with mountains of evidence that he's a despicable human being who cares only for himself and is using everyone to feed his narcissism. We know he's going to double down because that's all he's capable of. Growth is not an option for him. No, my friend, all of the replies are just attempts to lead him into a discussion about Vance fucking sofas.
His positions track pretty well with all the MAGA's I know. Everything is vibes-based. Whatever "feels" right to them is the truth, regardless of how absurd it may be. Data is irrelevant, only what they can see through their narrow window is reality. That all gets compounded because:
- There is no such thing as empathy. In fact, empathy is considered a significant weakness. Putting yourself in someone else's shoes or considering that a societal issue may impact someone else differently than you is impossible. If a person is struggling because of a policy or challenge, well, that's just their own fault. They should just work harder/get over it/stop being lazy/quit complaining/etc. But the moment it affects ME personally, then it becomes an issue that must be addressed immediately.
- When you spend 8+ years building your entire personality around MAGA, it's nigh impossible to admit that maybe - just maybe - it isn't all what you've built it up to be. Far easier to simply call any data or information you don't like "fake news" and just listen attentively to whatever Dear Leader says.
One example to illustrate the main difference. I had a MAGA last week tell me that he didn't care what any of the current lower inflation and unemployment numbers showed. He didn't believe any of them and is convinced the numbers are fully being manipulated by "them". He was certain that Biden's economy is actually the "worst since the Great Depression" because he's personally struggling.
If the data came out tomorrow that both inflation and unemployment skyrocketed to 25%, I would never think to call that data "fake". I would be shocked, acknowledge it is a significant concern, and pay close attention to the policies that leaders propose to address the issue.
Therein lies the difference.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 1:57 pm
by Archinerd
Victoria Raverna wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:43 pm
I think Trump probably didn't mean he'll cancel elections. He probably just meant he doesn't need them to vote again because of term limit. If they vote for him and he win, it'll be his last term. So they don't need to vote again in 4 years. He doesn't care about them, he just want their votes so he can win and avoid possible jail time.
No.
If you thought this back in 2015, I would maybe give you the pass. Trump and his shit heads don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 2:54 pm
by Holman
We should remember, too, that Trump isn't merely incompetent. It's not like he simply wasn't up for the intellectual demands of the job.
He was also, and more importantly, completely incapable of its moral demands. He subjugated the good of the country and workings of government to his own personal gain. There is no reason whatsoever to expect that he wouldn't do that again, only this time he'll come out of the gate with advisors and officials selected for their willingness to go along with it.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 2:57 pm
by Zarathud
And they couldn’t stop him if they wanted. He’s immune for official acts now. It’s terrifying.
YellowKing wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:44 am
I saw a great tweet talking about how Trump supporters like Trump because "he says what he means," then spend all their time re-framing what he actually meant.
That's a good point. They're spinning the "never vote again" remark to mean that trump will entrench Christianity so deeply that us heathens won't ever be able to dislodge it...not that he'll cancel elections. Oh. Well, that's fine then.
Whew an entrenched theocracy. That puts me at ease. I'm probably not the Christian they're looking for in their new world order though...
Of course Jesus has been totally misrepresented in the bible by liberal apostles?
Anyhow let’s look exactly what Trump said:
“Get out and vote just this time. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years it will be fixed. It’ll be fine. You won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians.”
“You’ve got to get out and vote. In four years, you don’t have to vote again, we’ll have it fixed so good you’re not going to have to vote.”
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:38 pm
by Holman
The most charitable, bending-over-backwards interpretation is that Trump knows that he won't be running again in four years, so he literally does not give a shit about elections in 2028. GOP? Fuck 'em.
All he cares about is personal revenge for 2020. After 2024 (his thinking goes), who cares what happens?
But even given this hypothetical indulgence, is this raging narcissist deserving of the presidency?
[And then: rejecting the premise above means accepting that he and his party are committed to make sure that future elections can't stop them.]
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 7:10 pm
by Victoria Raverna
Alefroth wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:46 pm
Yeah, that's what he meant.
Where does this fit in to that interpretation?
"We'll have it fixed so good, you're not gonna have to vote."
He lied. He tried to get them to vote for him in 2024.
Re: The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:38 pm
by waitingtoconnect
One could also assume that his ego could not allow his successor to get more votes than him.
