Octopus Overlords

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 12:30 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 9:27 am I would love to hear Kamala and Walz just start referring to Trump and Vance as "Dannie and J.R."

I would not love that. Wasn't crazy about his couch comment either, but not a huge deal as long as he doesn't double down on that like Trump does. We want to follow MAGA's behavior and start name-calling? Race to the bottom?

I think it's possible to name call in such a way that it shows the absurdity, childishness, and pettiness of it. Without actually sinking to their level. It's making fun of their behavior, not them.

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 9:27 am I would love to hear Kamala and Walz just start referring to Trump and Vance as "Dannie and J.R."

I like Shady Vance.

My only hope is that this 'feel good' optimism doesn't lead Democrats into complacency. If people are so confident that they've won that they don't bother to vote, they end up losing.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 12:30 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 9:27 am I would love to hear Kamala and Walz just start referring to Trump and Vance as "Dannie and J.R."

I would not love that. Wasn't crazy about his couch comment either, but not a huge deal as long as he doesn't double down on that like Trump does. We want to follow MAGA's behavior and start name-calling? Race to the bottom?

We'll never get to the same bottom. So I'm not too worried about name calling...especially when it's simply screwing up their name in a non-insulting manner. Now, if you're talking about making fun of assassination attempts, I've already stated that's a bridge too far. But this? This is a bridge just right.

Wasn't crazy about his couch comment either,

You're dead inside. That's the only thing I can figure out.

Sofa king dead.

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:07 pm You're dead inside.

Is that a request for me to post pics (yes, they gave me pics!?) from the colonoscopy I had this morning to prove otherwise? IS IT?!? Because I will!

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:22 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:07 pm You're dead inside.

Is that a request for me to post pics (yes, they gave me pics!?) from the colonoscopy I had this morning to prove otherwise? IS IT?!? Because I will!

Did you do what I did at mine and tell the attending doctor he could keep whatever he found?

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:41 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:22 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:07 pm You're dead inside.

Is that a request for me to post pics (yes, they gave me pics!?) from the colonoscopy I had this morning to prove otherwise? IS IT?!? Because I will!

Did you do what I did at mine and tell the attending doctor he could keep whatever he found?

Dammit. Lost opportunity to ask for samples. I didn't even think of that going in.

It's probably for the best. My doctor used the whole fist instead of a finger after I said that....

Blackhawk wrote:My only hope is that this 'feel good' optimism doesn't lead Democrats into complacency.

That's always a concern, but I'm not really getting the feeling it's in danger of heading that way. Between the huge rally numbers and the polling showing a significant climb in voter enthusiasm, I think people are genuinely excited to get out and vote for this ticket in a way I haven't seen since the first Obama election.

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:50 pm It's probably for the best. My doctor used the whole fist instead of a finger after I said that....

Wow, he fell for the old Monkey Trap?

YellowKing wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:55 pm

Blackhawk wrote:My only hope is that this 'feel good' optimism doesn't lead Democrats into complacency.

That's always a concern, but I'm not really getting the feeling it's in danger of heading that way. Between the huge rally numbers and the polling showing a significant climb in voter enthusiasm, I think people are genuinely excited to get out and vote for this ticket in a way I haven't seen since the first Obama election.

Pinkie Pie vs Eeyore, fight!

I know you're just joking Unagi, but I mean, I'm basing that optimism on current facts. That doesn't mean things can't change, but for right now I think the optimism is justified.

YellowKing wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:53 pm I know you're just joking Unagi, but I mean, I'm basing that optimism on current facts. That doesn't mean things can't change, but for right now I think the optimism is justified.

I definitely think it is justified, in some ways it feels like a fever has broken. I also know that since 2016, I'm constantly looking for Lucy to appear out of nowhere and yank the football away. I'm existing in both states, like the Schrodinger's cat of electoral politics.

I think I'll use "Schrodinger's optimism" to describe my outlook on life from now on.

YellowKing wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:55 pm

Blackhawk wrote:My only hope is that this 'feel good' optimism doesn't lead Democrats into complacency.

That's always a concern, but I'm not really getting the feeling it's in danger of heading that way. Between the huge rally numbers and the polling showing a significant climb in voter enthusiasm, I think people are genuinely excited to get out and vote for this ticket in a way I haven't seen since the first Obama election.

It would be interesting to consider what would happen if we had mandatory voting like Australia what might the results have been.

In the UK 40% stayed home in the election a month ago. Labour the winning party got about 20% of the eligible vote.

It’s incredible looking at the chart to think that Biden is the only real election winner in decades.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:22 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:07 pm You're dead inside.

Is that a request for me to post pics (yes, they gave me pics!?) from the colonoscopy I had this morning to prove otherwise? IS IT?!? Because I will!

Now that's a race to the bottom.

The Meal wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:51 pm

Man... one can dwell on that graph for like 10 minutes and just run through so many depressing realities.

If there's one positive to that chart, it's that the threat of a Trump second term brought more people out to vote than at any time since before 1976. That probably bodes well for 2024.

YellowKing wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 11:16 am If there's one positive to that chart, it's that the threat of a Trump second term brought more people out to vote than at any time since before 1976. That probably bodes well for 2024.

Appears to be the first election since at least 76 where "Did not vote" failed to win the election.

YellowKing wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 11:16 am If there's one positive to that chart, it's that the threat of a Trump second term brought more people out to vote than at any time since before 1976. That probably bodes well for 2024.

Don't forget that Trump gained 10 million more voters from 2016 to 2020.

So, some of the people who came out to vote (perhaps 10 million of them or even more considering some people must have been turned off by the 4 years too), unfortunately, would appear to have been people who didn't realize Trump was so awesome back in 2016 but loved what they saw for those 4 years and came out to get him re-elected. So, that change may be at least half explained by the people who thought America was great ages ago, but have been staying home while we progressed into 80s,90s,aughts,etc...

El Guapo wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 11:18 am

YellowKing wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 11:16 am If there's one positive to that chart, it's that the threat of a Trump second term brought more people out to vote than at any time since before 1976. That probably bodes well for 2024.

Appears to be the first election since at least 76 where "Did not vote" failed to win the election.

Yeah, looks like "Did not vote" gave us 8% back into the voters group.

Blue got ~4.6 and Red got ~3.4

So as we go through Kamala brat summer the NYT (paywalled) published an article contrasting Trump’s fiscal policy (and all the underlying issues) with Harris’ policy which is at the moment nonexistent other than the usual affordable things for all and no tax cuts for the wealthy. I’ll give the Harris campaign some time because it’s only been a few weeks and I enjoy listening to all the ways the Trump/Vance ticket is strange and off putting but hopefully we’ll have some concrete policy talking points that thread the needle of being somewhat informative but not so specific to get her too tied down.

Who knows though, maybe it’s the economic elites and policy wonks who are into this and more Americans are happy with promises of affordable health and child care along with some nice tax cuts for the middle class?

Trump’s Tax Plan Could Add Trillions in Debt. Harris’s Is a Mystery.

I think Harris is pretty smart and something will be forthcoming. I also trust her administration more than Trump and his art of the steal…

I mean, what are the chances the Dems have some policy ideas that are more thought out than the GOP's?

Unagi wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 1:59 pm I mean, what are the chances the Dems have some policy ideas that are more thought out than the GOP's?

I’m sure it will all be prefaced with “making sure the wealthy will pay their fair share.” Someone should come up with a bingo card of political platitudes. Also I’m not clutching my pearls as much as the NYT over this. But Harris will be moving into the phase where some substantial policy talking points should be ready to be tossed to the media like red meat.

$iljanus wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:05 pm

Unagi wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 1:59 pm I mean, what are the chances the Dems have some policy ideas that are more thought out than the GOP's?

I’m sure it will all be prefaced with “making sure the wealthy will pay their fair share.” Someone should come up with a bingo card of political platitudes. Also I’m not clutching my pearls as much as the NYT over this. But Harris will be moving into the phase where some substantial policy talking points should be ready to be tossed to the media like red meat.

The other thing is that politically vagueness is probably Harris's friend, especially given how close it is to the general election. The more specifics she gives, the more she's likely to alienate some part of the Democratic coalition.

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:16 am

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:22 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:07 pm You're dead inside.

Is that a request for me to post pics (yes, they gave me pics!?) from the colonoscopy I had this morning to prove otherwise? IS IT?!? Because I will!

Now that's a race to the bottom.

El Guapo wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:09 pm

$iljanus wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:05 pm

Unagi wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 1:59 pm I mean, what are the chances the Dems have some policy ideas that are more thought out than the GOP's?

I’m sure it will all be prefaced with “making sure the wealthy will pay their fair share.” Someone should come up with a bingo card of political platitudes. Also I’m not clutching my pearls as much as the NYT over this. But Harris will be moving into the phase where some substantial policy talking points should be ready to be tossed to the media like red meat.

The other thing is that politically vagueness is probably Harris's friend, especially given how close it is to the general election. The more specifics she gives, the more she's likely to alienate some part of the Democratic coalition.

Won’t hurt to promise more of the same…


Americans claimed more than $8 billion in climate-friendly tax credits under the Inflation Reduction Act last year, according to new data released by the Treasury Department, a “significant” number that is higher than initially expected, officials said.

The bulk of the money, more than $6 billion, helped households install rooftop solar panels, small wind turbines and other renewable energy systems. These credits were most popular in sunny states, including much of the Southwest and Florida, the data shows.

YellowKing wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:55 pm

Blackhawk wrote:My only hope is that this 'feel good' optimism doesn't lead Democrats into complacency.

That's always a concern, but I'm not really getting the feeling it's in danger of heading that way. Between the huge rally numbers and the polling showing a significant climb in voter enthusiasm, I think people are genuinely excited to get out and vote for this ticket in a way I haven't seen since the first Obama election.

I think it shows how wrong people were to assume that Biden was the only realistic solution, and how relieved people that typically vote D were to have a different choice.

But it was unprecedented! Yep! And it happened, too.

It’s fascinating how the pools have turned for Harris in the various swing states:

https://twitter.com/birenbomb/status/18 ... NcXCfN8s1g

I think Biden was up only in PA, and now Harris has taken the lead in several such as Nevada and has put back into play other states such as GA and AZ where Biden was trailing significantly. It’s early of course and there’s a lot that can yet happen (watching the economy nervously) but it’s great that have hope, which I did not have under Biden, as much as I supported and respected him.

And really want to see Trump melt downs as he realizes victory falls from his grasp and he realizes he’s going to face prison.

I admit that I was wrong on this. I have absolutely no idea why Biden would be a problem (even with the age factor. He's the sitting president for god's sake, and has had a very productive term!) for some people but Harris is not, but here we are. Especially given who they are up against.

I don't understand people, I guess.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:19 pm I admit that I was wrong on this. I have absolutely no idea why Biden would be a problem (even with the age factor. He's the sitting president for god's sake, and has had a very productive term!) for some people but Harris is not, but here we are. Especially given who they are up against.

I don't understand people, I guess.

Not sure if serious.

You can't think of one very specific reason that Biden was problematic, and that so many potential D voters were at the least ambivalent toward him as a choice, if not downright disgruntled?

Hint: it's not because he was corrupt, did a shitty job while president, or was an asshole

Nothing that makes Harris more appealing. And let's not forget your country already failed to elect a far more qualified and skilled woman when she was up against drumpf.

I think Harris is ok. I have no idea where this surge is coming from. Yes. Serious. But hey, whatever works, I guess. A potted plant is better than the alternative.

edit: Not to mention Biden ran when he didn't want to the first time, just because people begged him to save them from drumpf. Which he did, and then did a more than passable job sitting in the captain's chair.

I find the whole thing bewildering to be honest.

I completely understand what you are trying to say, Goo, even if I'm in the blissfully pleased camp of watching things seem to turn around.

Freyland wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 3:05 pm even if I'm in the blissfully pleased camp of watching things seem to turn around.

I'm right there beside you, optimism trying its best to rise from the dead.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:34 pm Nothing that makes Harris more appealing. And let's not forget your country already failed to elect a far more qualified and skilled woman when she was up against drumpf.

I think Harris is ok. I have no idea where this surge is coming from. Yes. Serious. But hey, whatever works, I guess. A potted plant is better than the alternative.

edit: Not to mention Biden ran when he didn't want to the first time, just because people begged him to save them from drumpf. Which he did, and then did a more than passable job sitting in the captain's chair.

I find the whole thing bewildering to be honest.

Yeah, I'm 100% on the same page. Like, obviously people were right to be worried about Biden's age, about further decline over the next four years, for sure. But at the same time, the policies of a Harris administration are likely to be very close to that of a Biden second term, and if Biden were to suffer a major health setback during a second term, Harris would be the one who would take over. And Trump is, you know, Trump.

Like I'm not shocked that Harris is doing better. But *this* much better? But apparently there were a lot of people sitting around like, "ehhhh, Biden's pretty old, so I better vote for the crazy fascist instead."

Honestly I suspect that a big part of it is that the last 8 years have just been completely exhausting, and people are dying for something new. And while Harris is the sitting VP, her profile the past few years has been pretty low, and she's the closest thing to a fresh face.

El Guapo wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 3:28 pm Like I'm not shocked that Harris is doing better. But *this* much better? But apparently there were a lot of people sitting around like, "ehhhh, Biden's pretty old, so I better vote for the crazy fascist instead."

I don't know if it is that or people who weren't going to vote are now going to vote.

And Hillary came with a lot more baggage than Kamala. Yes, it made her more experienced, but also gave her the opportunity to turn more people off just by her name.

Biden was effective, but he wasn't seen as effective. As always when it comes to voting, it's the perception, not the reality, that wins.

Biden also didn't really inspire people. He was calm and dry, not exciting. Not to agree with Trump, but Biden really has been low-energy.

Now voters have a pair of (D) candidates that they're genuinely excited about.