Octopus Overlords

Page 5

triggercut wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Remus and trig seem to have each other's backs. Interesting.

I don't think I've even considered anything about Remus.

Your drawing of conclusions where none exists feels leading and wolfish, frankly.

EDIT: Your, because, twitch.

A good answer.

redrun picks up on the Lassr order claiming thing... votes Lassr. Lassr says "yep, villager" but hints that maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Both seem good to me. RMC's reaction that Lassr is self-outing on day 1 also looks fine.

El Guapo wrote:Ah, the day 1 lottery. There's some logic to redrun's "my orders are in" point, except that it applies equally well to a good special as to a wolf (unlikely, though possible, that either one would take the risk of making that joke). Ultimately that just points towards Lassr being a simple villager (unlike me, who is a sophisticated, urbane villager).

I also considered joining Qantaga in voting Scoop, on "Qantaga is usually right" grounds, but this is day 1 so not sure Qantaga's considerable logic is in play yet.

So for now I'll put my vote on

 Newcastle 
 


While I'm reticent to agree with Remus, given the general reactions this is the random day 1 vote that's most likely to yield information. Even while I have enjoyed the poetry, and I think it was started by my joke in the sign on thread.

A Newcastle vote here seems fishy and train-starting. Also, what's with the high-brow langauge? Do El Guapo normally act this way?


Trending good:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner?
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr?
RMC?

Trending evil:
triggercut?
El Guapo!
Vorret
Scoop

Page 6

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:

redrun wrote:So, Lassr, Unagi, El Guapo, {BB2112|Remus|Chaosraven} as wolves, with RMC as our sorcerer.
I suspect it's BB2112, but could be Remus or Chaosraven.

Wow, you have a list like that after only a few pages of day 1!

My extra scrutiny list right now just has redrun and Lord Mortis heading it.

Last game I got three out of four on my first guess - and that was on page 4. I'm running slow this game.

You really are a wolf.

Players are pouncing on redrun's threat list. The back-and-forth between Lassr and redrun makes me believe both of them are good.

Vorret wrote:I'm curious why you're all voting for Newcastle?
As I said earlier, why would a wolf attract attention to him like that? He's a villager, it's obvious.

The Newcastle train is quickly starting to leave the station - Vorret questions this. Maybe Vorret is a good guy after all.

Page 7

pr0ner wrote:

theohall wrote:Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

You consider what Newcastle is doing participation?

Another aggressive move by pr0ner. Yes, he's a good guy. theohall's answers are good, too.

Qantaga expresses frustration with Grund's silence, but understands why we don't off him early. Then, he attacks LordMortis' assumptions and vows to be "assertive" this game. After that, looks at Newcastle and asks for input. Then, attacks LordMortis.

Trending good:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC

Trending evil:
El Guapo
Scoop

Ok - I'm kind of in a hurry here so I'll make some summary decisions:

Good guys:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC
bb2112
tru1cy
theohall
Lagom Lite
Grundbegriff*

Maybe, baby:
triggercut?
purge?
Newcastle?
LordMortis?
Vorret?

Bad guys:
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

*Call this the "Honorary Day 1 Good Guy" award if you will.

Where's my vote at? Ah.

 wd Qantaga 
 


 El Guapo 
 

Nice analysis LL, but I can't see it for El Guapo, but I'll freely admit I am not entirely dialed in on this day as I always find day one a tedious.

See no reason for the moment to move my vote from redrun as he is as good as anyone for the first day

tru1cy wrote:Nice analysis LL, but I can't see it for El Guapo, but I'll freely admit I am not entirely dialed in on this day as I always find day one a tedious.

See no reason for the moment to move my vote from redrun as he is as good as anyone for the first day

I doubt redrun is a baddie. He sticks his chin out.

That said, these are my Day 1 guesses. I'm in no way certain about anything, but I feel El Guapo is a good test.

It's going to be especially interesting to see if Scoop withdraws his El Guapo vote when lynching is approaching.

Day 1 Vote Count
Votes required for lynch - 11

Against redrun (6) - Lassr, Remus, RMC, Bakhtosh, tru1cy, Vorret
Against Qantaga (3) - redrun, bb2112, Chaosraven
Against theohall (3) - Unagi, LordMortis, El Guapo
Against triggercut (2) - pr0ner, Scoop20906
Against El Guapo (1) - Lagom Lite
Against Scoop (1) - triggercut
Against Grundbegriff (1) - Newcastle
Against Lagom LIte (1) - Qantaga
Against bb2112 (1) - theohall

No votes - Purge, Grundbegriff

There are 17 villagers alive. The deadline for the lynch vote is June 6th at 9pm Eastern time.

hmmm, I like that list LL. Awfully close to my thoughts.

LL not a bad list at all, and fairly close to what I was thinking.

I am not sold on El Guapo, I placed a vote on him, but more of a lark than anything else. But I could easily vote for Triggercut or maybe LordMortis. But both are very flimsy, and I worry that I am letting your excellent analysis narrow my focus. <sigh>

I understand the hurry thing but I'll be interested to see the reasoning that led from this

Lagom Lite wrote:Trending good:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC

Trending evil:
El Guapo
Scoop

to this full list

Lagom Lite wrote:Good guys:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC
bb2112
tru1cy
theohall
Lagom Lite
Grundbegriff*

Maybe, baby:
triggercut?
purge?
Newcastle?
LordMortis?
Vorret?

Bad guys:
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

Lassr, I think it interesting that you say he is awfully close to your thoughts yet your vote remains on redrun whom he lists as trending good.

Lagom Lite wrote:Page 6

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:

redrun wrote:So, Lassr, Unagi, El Guapo, {BB2112|Remus|Chaosraven} as wolves, with RMC as our sorcerer.
I suspect it's BB2112, but could be Remus or Chaosraven.

Wow, you have a list like that after only a few pages of day 1!

My extra scrutiny list right now just has redrun and Lord Mortis heading it.

Last game I got three out of four on my first guess - and that was on page 4. I'm running slow this game.

You really are a wolf.

Players are pouncing on redrun's threat list. The back-and-forth between Lassr and redrun makes me believe both of them are good.

Vorret wrote:I'm curious why you're all voting for Newcastle?
As I said earlier, why would a wolf attract attention to him like that? He's a villager, it's obvious.

The Newcastle train is quickly starting to leave the station - Vorret questions this. Maybe Vorret is a good guy after all.

Page 7

pr0ner wrote:

theohall wrote:Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

You consider what Newcastle is doing participation?

Another aggressive move by pr0ner. Yes, he's a good guy. theohall's answers are good, too.

Qantaga expresses frustration with Grund's silence, but understands why we don't off him early. Then, he attacks LordMortis' assumptions and vows to be "assertive" this game. After that, looks at Newcastle and asks for input. Then, attacks LordMortis.

Trending good:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC

Trending evil:
El Guapo
Scoop

I'm curious why triggercut gets dropped off the evil list at this point. I thought your point about Trig's "yeah I got nothing" was pretty interesting - at least more compelling than the # of players business.

Lagom Lite wrote:

tru1cy wrote:Nice analysis LL, but I can't see it for El Guapo, but I'll freely admit I am not entirely dialed in on this day as I always find day one a tedious.

See no reason for the moment to move my vote from redrun as he is as good as anyone for the first day

I doubt redrun is a baddie. He sticks his chin out.

That said, these are my Day 1 guesses. I'm in no way certain about anything, but I feel El Guapo is a good test.

It's going to be especially interesting to see if Scoop withdraws his El Guapo vote when lynching is approaching.

Scoop does not have an El Guapo vote. You're the only person currently voting for me.

Also I enjoyed the knock for the "high-brow language." Me use short words now.

El Guapo Tarzan!

Remus West wrote:

Spoiler:

I understand the hurry thing but I'll be interested to see the reasoning that led from this

Lagom Lite wrote:Trending good:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC

Trending evil:
El Guapo
Scoop

to this full list

Lagom Lite wrote:Good guys:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC
bb2112
tru1cy
theohall
Lagom Lite
Grundbegriff*

Maybe, baby:
triggercut?
purge?
Newcastle?
LordMortis?
Vorret?

Bad guys:
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

Lassr, I think it interesting that you say he is awfully close to your thoughts yet your vote remains on redrun whom he lists as trending good.

that's the close part. I do not have Chaosraven that high on my threat list. So replace redrun with Chaosraven and I agree with his other 3 and I'd add LordMortis for a list of 5 on my watch closely list.

I'm back and forth on triggercut. One thing is sure; we need to lynch someone today, and we need to compromise. It's probably going to be an innocent, it's probably going to be wolves on the vote (hell, even driving the vote) but we still need to reach a conclusion. I could test triggercut if it's the collective will to do so (and for the slip (?) a page ago).

What's the case on redrun?

Remus West wrote:I understand the hurry thing but I'll be interested to see the reasoning that led from this

Lagom Lite wrote:Trending good:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC

Trending evil:
El Guapo
Scoop

to this full list

Lagom Lite wrote:Good guys:
redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Remus West
Lassr
RMC
bb2112
tru1cy
theohall
Lagom Lite
Grundbegriff*

Maybe, baby:
triggercut?
purge?
Newcastle?
LordMortis?
Vorret?

Bad guys:
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

Lassr, I think it interesting that you say he is awfully close to your thoughts yet your vote remains on redrun whom he lists as trending good.

Guesswork. I could be persuaded to test anyone within the "Maybe, baby" category.

El Guapo wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

tru1cy wrote:Nice analysis LL, but I can't see it for El Guapo, but I'll freely admit I am not entirely dialed in on this day as I always find day one a tedious.

See no reason for the moment to move my vote from redrun as he is as good as anyone for the first day

I doubt redrun is a baddie. He sticks his chin out.

That said, these are my Day 1 guesses. I'm in no way certain about anything, but I feel El Guapo is a good test.

It's going to be especially interesting to see if Scoop withdraws his El Guapo vote when lynching is approaching.

Scoop does not have an El Guapo vote. You're the only person currently voting for me.

Also I enjoyed the knock for the "high-brow language." Me use short words now.

Don't stop on my account. I love it.

Re: Scoop, yeah I missed his withdrawal from you to triggercut.

Lagom Lite wrote:I'm back and forth on triggercut. One thing is sure; we need to lynch someone today, and we need to compromise. It's probably going to be an innocent, it's probably going to be wolves on the vote (hell, even driving the vote) but we still need to reach a conclusion. I could test triggercut if it's the collective will to do so (and for the slip (?) a page ago).

What's the case on redrun?

So when you say this I guess you mean Day 1 or today a full week before the deadline?

Lagom Lite wrote:

El Guapo wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

tru1cy wrote:Nice analysis LL, but I can't see it for El Guapo, but I'll freely admit I am not entirely dialed in on this day as I always find day one a tedious.

See no reason for the moment to move my vote from redrun as he is as good as anyone for the first day

I doubt redrun is a baddie. He sticks his chin out.

That said, these are my Day 1 guesses. I'm in no way certain about anything, but I feel El Guapo is a good test.

It's going to be especially interesting to see if Scoop withdraws his El Guapo vote when lynching is approaching.

Scoop does not have an El Guapo vote. You're the only person currently voting for me.

Also I enjoyed the knock for the "high-brow language." Me use short words now.

Don't stop on my account. I love it.

Re: Scoop, yeah I missed his withdrawal from you to triggercut.

El Guapo fun fact: I got a perfect score on the verbal portion of the SAT college admission test.

tru1cy wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:I'm back and forth on triggercut. One thing is sure; we need to lynch someone today, and we need to compromise. It's probably going to be an innocent, it's probably going to be wolves on the vote (hell, even driving the vote) but we still need to reach a conclusion. I could test triggercut if it's the collective will to do so (and for the slip (?) a page ago).

What's the case on redrun?

So when you say this I guess you mean Day 1 or today a full week before the deadline?

Hopefully the former but I do agree that it would be nice to lynch earlier than we usually do (as in, really REALLY last minute).

Lagom Lite wrote:
What's the case on redrun?

Here is what kept my vote on him. His defensive reaction to a poke vote by me and then using my "joke jabs" to insinuate I'm trying to frame people for future votes. It felt like he was reaching for a reason to vote for me.

Lassr wrote:After a week of observations here are the few things that I took note of that could be something or could be nothing.

We'll start with my redrun vote:

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote:

redrun wrote: Just to save some time here, is there anyone out there who isn't the seer?

See here is what was delaying the wolves, they were waiting to see who would not claim seer.

 redrun 
 

I'm a bit confused. Right before you voted for me you stated:

Lassr wrote:Come one guys. What are the odds that Remus is good 2 games in a row?

Later that same day (real day):

Lassr wrote:

LordMortis wrote: And looking over the rules/roles this like a game where things are tilted in the village's favor. Yay village.

Only wolves read all the rules...

You have one other post that isn't fluff:

Lassr wrote:

El Guapo wrote:How hard is it to choose a kill on night zero? Is it who tells the funniest joke in the village? The least funny joke?

So you know for a fact the wolves are holding up the game?

Possibly true, my orders are in though...

Combined with your day one "I have my orders in" statement (ie: hinting that you are a special), I'm not sure if you're poking for response, or just spreading guilt with a wide trowel hoping to see what you can make stick.

But no good special would have outed themself with a "my orders are in" line, right? So I can assume you're either wolf or plain 'ol villager?

 Lassr 
 

As I often do, I throw out little jabs on day 1 just to see what happens. Of all the little jabs redrun is the one I chose to cast a vote. There was nothing really behind the vote other than to get a reaction. His reaction was rather defensive so at that point I saw no reason to withdraw the vote.

His accusation that I'm trying to spread guilt seems a bit absurd. Not sure how successful I could be spreading guilt over obviously joke accusations.

tru1cy wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:I'm back and forth on triggercut. One thing is sure; we need to lynch someone today, and we need to compromise. It's probably going to be an innocent, it's probably going to be wolves on the vote (hell, even driving the vote) but we still need to reach a conclusion. I could test triggercut if it's the collective will to do so (and for the slip (?) a page ago).

What's the case on redrun?

So when you say this I guess you mean Day 1 or today a full week before the deadline?

Day 1, obviously.

Thanks Lassr, I see your point.

ll wrote:stuff and more stuff

I don't buy it but then as you say it's all guess work and my guess work is amazingly close to 180 from yours.

This makes me surprised at the "me too"s that joined your guess work as good thinking.

And to make bb2112 happy, if you, lassr, and RMC are bonding over your guess work, then go ahead and start changing me from maybe to trending evil. You could do a lot worse than lynching me on day one. We will need to kill someone and this is what realistically have so far:

Against redrun (6) - Lassr, Remus, RMC, Bakhtosh, tru1cy, Vorret
Against Qantaga (3) - redrun, bb2112, Chaosraven
Against theohall (3) - Unagi, LordMortis, El Guapo
Against triggercut (2) - pr0ner, Scoop20906

I'm fairly happily on the Theo vote and don't see me switching to

El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

on day one. Getting 3 against me will mark me as front runner.

The interplay between LL and Lassr is creeping me out.

I'm also greatly intrigued by LL's number one suspect--El Guapo--apparently talks LL into considering a vote for me.

I'll paraphrase the exchange:

LL: (Places El Guapo on his wolf list.)

El Guapo: "Shouldn't triggercut be on this list?

LL: "I'd be happy to vote for him, gotta break some eggs on day one."

 triggercut 
 

triggercut wrote:The interplay between LL and Lassr is creeping me out.

I'm also greatly intrigued by LL's number one suspect--El Guapo--apparently talks LL into considering a vote for me.

I'll paraphrase the exchange:

LL: (Places El Guapo on his wolf list.)

El Guapo: "Shouldn't triggercut be on this list?

LL: "I'd be happy to vote for him, gotta break some eggs on day one."

My opinions of you aren't modified in the slightest by anything El Guapo says.

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:The interplay between LL and Lassr is creeping me out.

I'm also greatly intrigued by LL's number one suspect--El Guapo--apparently talks LL into considering a vote for me.

I'll paraphrase the exchange:

LL: (Places El Guapo on his wolf list.)

El Guapo: "Shouldn't triggercut be on this list?

LL: "I'd be happy to vote for him, gotta break some eggs on day one."

My opinions of you aren't modified in the slightest by anything El Guapo says.

Not even with my high-brow language?

Trig, I was mostly curious about LL's rationale for dropping you off when he went from one list to the next, so that I can understand his logic.

LordMortis wrote:

ll wrote:stuff and more stuff

I don't buy it but then as you say it's all guess work and my guess work is amazingly close to 180 from yours.

This makes me surprised at the "me too"s that joined your guess work as good thinking.

And to make bb2112 happy, if you, lassr, and RMC are bonding over your guess work, then go ahead and start changing me from maybe to trending evil. You could do a lot worse than lynching me on day one. We will need to kill someone and this is what realistically have so far:

Against redrun (6) - Lassr, Remus, RMC, Bakhtosh, tru1cy, Vorret
Against Qantaga (3) - redrun, bb2112, Chaosraven
Against theohall (3) - Unagi, LordMortis, El Guapo
Against triggercut (2) - pr0ner, Scoop20906

I'm fairly happily on the Theo vote and don't see me switching to

El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

on day one. Getting 3 against me will mark me as front runner.

And that, my friends, is Apathy.

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:The interplay between LL and Lassr is creeping me out.

I'm also greatly intrigued by LL's number one suspect--El Guapo--apparently talks LL into considering a vote for me.

I'll paraphrase the exchange:

LL: (Places El Guapo on his wolf list.)

El Guapo: "Shouldn't triggercut be on this list?

LL: "I'd be happy to vote for him, gotta break some eggs on day one."

My opinions of you aren't modified in the slightest by anything El Guapo says.

The difference is interpreting what you say there and what your actions were.

So you say.

I see different.

El Guapo wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:The interplay between LL and Lassr is creeping me out.

I'm also greatly intrigued by LL's number one suspect--El Guapo--apparently talks LL into considering a vote for me.

I'll paraphrase the exchange:

LL: (Places El Guapo on his wolf list.)

El Guapo: "Shouldn't triggercut be on this list?

LL: "I'd be happy to vote for him, gotta break some eggs on day one."

My opinions of you aren't modified in the slightest by anything El Guapo says.

Not even with my high-brow language?

Trig, I was mostly curious about LL's rationale for dropping you off when he went from one list to the next, so that I can understand his logic.

Indeed. Your actions/responses don't move my needle regarding you one bit.

LL is a different story entirely.

El Guapo wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:The interplay between LL and Lassr is creeping me out.

I'm also greatly intrigued by LL's number one suspect--El Guapo--apparently talks LL into considering a vote for me.

I'll paraphrase the exchange:

LL: (Places El Guapo on his wolf list.)

El Guapo: "Shouldn't triggercut be on this list?

LL: "I'd be happy to vote for him, gotta break some eggs on day one."

My opinions of you aren't modified in the slightest by anything El Guapo says.

Not even with my high-brow language?

Trig, I was mostly curious about LL's rationale for dropping you off when he went from one list to the next, so that I can understand his logic.

I know I put a "?" on triggercut, mostly because he's so darn aggressive, but I forget where exactly. The line between aggressive and defensive is sometimes hard to read, but I think a triggercut wolf wouldn't be so... obvious? It just makes trig a clean target for wolves to pounce, and my gut says that's exactly what is happening right now.

Regardless, it makes triggercut a good test today. If more players vote triggercut I won't shy away from pushing him over. I still think you, El Guapo, seem more sly and underhanded than him, and a more likely wolf.

triggercut wrote:LL is a different story entirely.

You think me evil?

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:LL is a different story entirely.

You think me evil?

Yeah. I do.

 Withdraw Scoop.

Lagom Lite 
 

triggercut wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:LL is a different story entirely.

You think me evil?

Yeah. I do.

 Withdraw Scoop.

Lagom Lite 
 

What's your reasoning?

triggercut wrote:The interplay between LL and Lassr is creeping me out.

Do you have a hidden camera set to watch us...oh, oh you mean the verbal exchange.

I liked his list. I had Scoop and Lordmortis on the watch list and I mentioned that many pages ago. I just happen to be looking back at bakhtosh, El Guapo and theohall this morning. So his list caught my attention.

Is it because we picked up on the same things, or could he be a wolf throwing his partners on his threat list to for future use, or could we just both be barking up the wrong trees?

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

triggercut wrote:LL is a different story entirely.

You think me evil?

Yeah. I do.

 Withdraw Scoop.

Lagom Lite 
 

What's your reasoning?

1. Regardless of your explanation, it still appears to me that one of the biggest targets on your threat list talked you into moving me up on yours.

2. The fact that you've repeatedly posted that you're happy to lynch me, because

3. Doing so would be helpful for the wolves.

Lagom Lite wrote:
Bad guys:
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

So I am interested in what made you add Bakhtosh to trending evil.

Lassr wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:
Bad guys:
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

So I am interested in what made you add Bakhtosh to trending evil.

His two posts, the personal touch with the shower, the need he felt to explain his vote. Just intuition really. Same with Chaosraven. I just wanted four players there since there are four wolves.

Right, ok, I've been thinking about this thing, and I think the villagers need some kind of anchor today.

I am the Grand Master of the Cabal.

There are three players in the Cabal. Me - and my two associates who shall not be named. And guys - keep hidden please.

You know my claim is true, because if were lying, one of the Cabal members would contest my claim.

The reasons I step forward is:
- If the wolves kill me our special power (scanning the dead) stays in play. Our power disappears only when the last member of our group is killed.
- I'm trusted and if the wolves kill me, which they need to do sometime down the line, they're not killing the Seer (or any other valuable special).
- My associates are both alive and well, and are both in my "Good Guy" list above. I therefore propose we don't lynch any of the players in my "Good Guy" list today. That should narrow the lynch down, as well as protect the identities of my associates.
- Each day, I can tell you the role of a previously killed player. I don't know Holman's role yet, since we aren't allowed to scan current night kills. I'll tell you who he is tomorrow (supposing I'm still alive, if I'm not, another of the Cabal might step forward).
- Each day, I'll tell you whether any members of the Cabal were killed, so the wolves can't fake Cabalists later.

One hugely important thing to remember is: I will NOT lead this village. I set a boundary today, but I'm much more interested in following other trains than driving them myself. The reason I say that is because I want players to assume responsibility. By following my lead, wolves are able to hide. They could just say, "oh I was just voting El Guapo because LL said so" and we'd be left with no behavior to read.

Regarding all players in the "Maybe, baby" and "Bad guys" categories; compared to them I know the LEAST about them. They know the MOST. I'll be following one of their leads probably.

Lagom Lite wrote:Maybe, baby:
triggercut?
purge?
Newcastle?
LordMortis?
Vorret?

Bad guys:
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven
Bakhtosh

very interesting