Octopus Overlords

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:29 am
Oh for the days of steam powered cars.

Wouldn't that be giving money to yet another billionaire?

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:19 am I don't know the abbreviations, but I assume that's a hybrid. It's not off the table, that's for sure. Nothing is, really, although ideally it would be an mid-sized EV. That's what I want. Wife wants something bigger (possible SUV. I've opposed SUVs for 20 years).

If I can't afford it, I'll need to find something else. Don't know what that would be yet.

I want (would like) a 100% electric family car, for less than $60K Canadian. As less than as possible. While still maintaining a good reputation on reliability and other review worthy qualities. I don't have an preference for gizmos or gadgets, but my last car was over a decade ago, so I suspect I'm getting new toys regardless of my preference. Things that are standard now, like rear facing camera and screen seems to be standard. Yes, I'm behind on car tech.

$60K isn't a hard limit, but it's a hurdle I would prefer not to pass.

Keep in mind that I haven't actually started looking yet, except for glancing at used EVs in autotrader. Briefly.

Were I you, I'd start by looking at the Ford Mustang Mach-e, Kia EV6, and Tesla Model Y. All start under your $60k limit, have solid range and are reasonably sized.

My knowledge of Canadian incentives is non-existant, but it looks like all 3 would qualify for a $5k haircut via the gub'ment.

Freyland wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:46 am Wouldn't that be giving money to yet another billionaire?

It's not billionaires in general, although I guess it should be. Hard to operate on a daily basis without funneling some money to the oligarchy, I assume.

In this particular case it's just one trollish douche bag standing in my way.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:29 am You think that's bad. I hear ICE engines are powered by literal explosions. Thousands per minute! I hope there aren't any videos of those engines bursting into flames!

Your BEV-cheerleading deputy affiliate check is in the mail.

Freyland wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:46 am

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:29 am
Oh for the days of steam powered cars.

Wouldn't that be giving money to yet another billionaire?

Purchasing a new vehicle is giving money to a billionaire on one level or another.

I was making a too-subtle Gabe Newell joke.

Freyland wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:02 pm I was making a too-subtle Gabe Newell joke.

Initially went right over my head, but

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:01 pm Were I you, I'd start by looking at the Ford Mustang Mach-e, Kia EV6, and Tesla Model Y. All start under your $60k limit, have solid range and are reasonably sized.

My knowledge of Canadian incentives is non-existant, but it looks like all 3 would qualify for a $5k haircut via the gub'ment.

I'm not gonna lie, some of my motivation for posting in this thread was in the hopes someone would do some of the work for me, or at least get me started. So thank you on both counts. I mean it, it is very much appreciated.

I have decades old bias against korean cars, but I just need to get over it. The mustang is almost too ostentatious in its looks. I feel like I'm splurging/paying for looks at that point. Again, not a road block, just an (imagined) speed bump. If things work out that it's cost effective compared to others, or even similarly priced, I would definitely consider it.

I am not a fancy man, and driving a fancy (looking) car makes me vaguely uncomfortable. Hah! Again, not off the table by any means. Just voicing my impressions (with little to no facts to back it up, except for having seen a picture of one once. Ok, a few times).

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:06 pmI am not a fancy man, and driving a fancy (looking) car makes me vaguely uncomfortable. Hah! Again, not off the table by any means. Just voicing my impressions (with little to no facts to back it up, except for having seen a picture of one once. Ok, a few times).

Then the Model Y is for you--far and away the frumpiest-looking of the three (IMHO).

FWIW, we've got folks on here that have Mach-es (Machs-e?) and like them, I know a bunch of Y owners who like them, and I know 0 EV6 owners. I do know a couple of Hyundai Ioniq 5 owners who are also happy campers.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:29 am You think that's bad. I hear ICE engines are powered by literal explosions. Thousands per minute! I hope there aren't any videos of those engines bursting into flames!

Need help? No, I'm fine.

Oh for the days of steam powered cars.

Get a horse...avoid all these troubles. Runs on grass and expels fertilizer.

Thanks for the info on incentives. I will research thoroughly, but it's good to be reminded. Just mentioning that to me (and me to my wife) has helped immensely

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:13 pm

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:06 pmI am not a fancy man, and driving a fancy (looking) car makes me vaguely uncomfortable. Hah! Again, not off the table by any means. Just voicing my impressions (with little to no facts to back it up, except for having seen a picture of one once. Ok, a few times).

Then the Model Y is for you--far and away the frumpiest-looking of the three (IMHO).

FWIW, we've got folks on here that have Mach-es (Machs-e?) and like them, I know a bunch of Y owners who like them, and I know 0 EV6 owners. I do know a couple of Hyundai Ioniq 5 owners who are also happy campers.

I know a new EV6 owner - they like it a lot. We considered it but my wife isn't up to going 100% EV as a household yet.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:20 pm Thanks for the info on incentives. I will research thoroughly, but it's good to be reminded. Just mentioning that to me (and me to my wife) has helped immensely

Freyland wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:02 pm I was making a too-subtle Gabe Newell joke.

omg hah!

I actually don't buy a lot of stuff through steam any more. I actually don't buy much. My backlog is too long and new prices are too high (see aversion to spending money, especially on myself).

It never once dawned on me you meant Steam. Hilarious.

malchior wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:20 pm I know a new EV6 owner - they like it a lot. We considered it but my wife isn't up to going 100% EV as a household yet.

Neither is mine, but she might have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the present/near-future.

While she's against changes in general, the real sticking point that I am uncomfortable forcing on her is a smaller car. Everything else I feel justified, and I don't think we need a large van-ish sized vehicle any longer, she disagrees. In her defense she does massive grocery orders that I do not take part in (except to unload), so her current method of grocery shopping would have to change. Requiring more trips. Which requires more effort. I don't like making my wife's life harder, even if it saves dollars in the long run.

malchior wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:20 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:13 pm

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:06 pmI am not a fancy man, and driving a fancy (looking) car makes me vaguely uncomfortable. Hah! Again, not off the table by any means. Just voicing my impressions (with little to no facts to back it up, except for having seen a picture of one once. Ok, a few times).

Then the Model Y is for you--far and away the frumpiest-looking of the three (IMHO).

FWIW, we've got folks on here that have Mach-es (Machs-e?) and like them, I know a bunch of Y owners who like them, and I know 0 EV6 owners. I do know a couple of Hyundai Ioniq 5 owners who are also happy campers.

I know a new EV6 owner - they like it a lot. We considered it but my wife isn't up to going 100% EV as a household yet.

If Tesla didn't exist, EV6 would be my choice (but it should be cheaper! It's a Kia dammit!!!).

coopasonic wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:37 pm If Tesla didn't exist, EV6 would be my choice (but it should be cheaper! It's a Kia dammit!!!).

Lol, exactly!

And the truth is if push comes to shove, I'll buy a Tesla. There are limits to my political convictions, and dollars are part of that. As Zax said, I'm giving my money to some billionaire somewhere.

Coop, I would have expected you to be a mach-e guy. Too muscle-y looking for you? I know you like performance and/or sporty.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:34 pmWhile she's against changes in general, the real sticking point that I am uncomfortable forcing on her is a smaller car. Everything else I feel justified, and I don't think we need a large van-ish sized vehicle any longer, she disagrees. In her defense she does massive grocery orders that I do not take part in (except to unload), so her current method of grocery shopping would have to change. Requiring more trips. Which requires more effort. I don't like making my wife's life harder, even if it saves dollars in the long run.

Also don't discount the fact that an equivalent-sized BEV (well, a well-designed one, anyway) will have considerably more storage capacity than an ICE car. Frunks, lower trunk floors, no axle tunnel, etc.

I do love my Mach-e, and I have just the standard edition. Yes, I get nice looks, but the drive is fabulous and it has lots of cargo space. Holds 4 comfortably. Only* cost $45k USD, if you ignore the dealership gouge I received. Very pleased.


*Prior to this, my last new cars for me was $35K and $42k (wife) 10-ish years ago, and since I was determined to get an EBV, and needed it promptly, I am out of touch as to whether 45k is actually as reasonable as I think it is.

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:42 pm
Also don't discount the fact that an equivalent-sized BEV (well, a well-designed one, anyway) will have considerably more storage capacity than an ICE car. Frunks, lower trunk floors, no axle tunnel, etc.

Very excellent point. Thank you. I didn't forget, I never even thought of it. This weekend, in earnest!

Freyland wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:45 pm I do love my Mach-e, and I have just the standard edition. Yes, I get nice looks, but the drive is fabulous and it has lots of cargo space. Holds 4 comfortably. Only* cost $45k USD, if you ignore the dealership gouge I received. Very pleased.


*Prior to this, my last new cars for me was $35K and $42k (wife) 10-ish years ago, and since I was determined to get an EBV, and needed it promptly, I am out of touch as to whether 45k is actually as reasonable as I think it is.

I didn't know you had a mach-e, congratulations! I didn't follow this thread because I've been in denial, since my ancient van has worked nearly flawlessly for an unreasonable number of years. My wife thinks this is normal and expects almost 2 decades out of her next car. Sigh.

Thanks for jumping in. I'm glad you like your car. I'm sure I will like mine too, whichever it turns out to be.

Thank you, Goo. I think so much has changed in my life since we last really Discord'ed. And certainly, good luck on your car search!

Freyland wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:13 pm Thank you, Goo. I think so much has changed in my life since we last really Discord'ed. And certainly, good luck on your car search!

I hope for the better, my friend. Kids doing ok? Are you on discord regularly still? I will try to check in tonight. I don't get as much computer time as I used to. Kids are grown up and hogging the thing. Oldest has his own laptop, so that helps. Everyone has a chromebook or a phone or a tablet or all 3 in some cases. Dad's ancient computer is constantly in demand anyway.

Anyway, I hope you are doing well, and it's exciting that you have an electric, at least in my opinion. I'm excited about getting one.

To establish my bona fides, I have a Mach E, a Bolt, and a Bolt EUV (7 days old today!) and just sold our 2008 Chrysler Town & Country so we are a fully electric family.

Since you are really just starting this journey, I would suggest you think about what your daily commute and charging plan is. Zaxxon would tell you that non-Tesla public charging in the US is not truly viable for long trips while I would say it is merely not for the weak of heart ( ). Whenever I've looked into Canada's options, however, I'm much more in Zaxxon's camp. If the plans for this car are really long road trips you need to really look into public charging options or just go with Tesla.

Additionally, while global warming is progressing, my understanding is that it still gets a wee bit nippy for our northern friends. EVs lose significant range in the cold - 30% is not uncommon. You have to decide if this fits into your daily commute plans. One way to mitigate it is to choose an option with a heat pump (EV6, Model Y) as it takes much colder temperatures before you start to see an effect on range.

Finally, do you have a place to install a charger at your house? If not, you'd need to come up with a plan for "daily" charging as well. I use scare quotes because depending on your daily use, you might be able to get by on 120V or else you might be able to use a DC fast charger say, 2x/week...which wouldn't be daily but would cover your daily driving needs.

Edit: In terms of cargo room, we used the Mach E for a 2500 mile/ 2 week round trip last summer from South Carolina to Boston, MA and back. It was myself, my wife, and my daughters (16 & 13). We had a lot of luggage and absolutely stuffed that car to the brim. We made it, but don't kid yourself that it is going to have as much room as a minivan. The kids had bags under their feet in the Mach E - had we taken the van, everything would have comfortably fit behind their captain's chairs with room to spare.

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:46 pmZaxxon would tell you that non-Tesla public charging in the US is not truly viable for long trips while I would say it is merely not for the weak of heart ( ).

I'll endorse your description.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:35 pm

Freyland wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:13 pm Thank you, Goo. I think so much has changed in my life since we last really Discord'ed. And certainly, good luck on your car search!

I hope for the better, my friend. Kids doing ok? Are you on discord regularly still? I will try to check in tonight. I don't get as much computer time as I used to. Kids are grown up and hogging the thing. Oldest has his own laptop, so that helps. Everyone has a chromebook or a phone or a tablet or all 3 in some cases. Dad's ancient computer is constantly in demand anyway.

Anyway, I hope you are doing well, and it's exciting that you have an electric, at least in my opinion. I'm excited about getting one.

I anticipate being around this evening if that does work out for you.

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:46 pm To establish my bona fides, I have a Mach E, a Bolt, and a Bolt EUV (7 days old today!) and just sold our 2008 Chrysler Town & Country so we are a fully electric family.

Holy mother...

We are a perfect family for an EV (I think?). Nothing but short trips in the city. I can't remember the last time we drove over 100 km in a single drive. So I'm not overly concerned about long distances or remote charging, but want those options if I can get them. I will need to research the charging station situation in Canada and more importantly around Ottawa. I anticipate 95% (at least) of our charging to happen at home.

Oh, and the grocery trips are just 1-2 people, so I don't need to haul 5 people and a grocery order. My wife will feel differently. I think she's going to be disappointed. I'm not buying another bus, no matter how good the last one was.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:39 pm

coopasonic wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:37 pm If Tesla didn't exist, EV6 would be my choice (but it should be cheaper! It's a Kia dammit!!!).

Lol, exactly!

And the truth is if push comes to shove, I'll buy a Tesla. There are limits to my political convictions, and dollars are part of that. As Zax said, I'm giving my money to some billionaire somewhere.

Coop, I would have expected you to be a mach-e guy. Too muscle-y looking for you? I know you like performance and/or sporty.

I've learned that they are basically all a blast to drive. High torque and low center of gravity tends to do that. I think I like the looks of the Kia better. Having owned two mustangs previously, the idea that they decided to put the mustang badge on a station wagon kind of annoys me.

You know, I wrote EV6 up there but I personally think the Ioniq 5 is a better option (having only done online research and never actually seen one in person).

coopasonic wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:00 pm I think I like the looks of the Kia better. Having owned two mustangs previously, the idea that they decided to put the mustang badge on a station wagon kind of annoys me.

Hilarious. I feel the exact same way but in reverse. Unless it's a 60's era mustang I don't want one, not even in name only.

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:11 pm You know, I wrote EV6 up there but I personally think the Ioniq 5 is a better option (having only done online research and never actually seen one in person).

Are there *any* EVs that I should avoid? It sounds like there are only a handful, and no one says anything bad about any of them.

There are a ton of BEVs out now or coming soon but I only have personal experience with Tesla. The cars are great as long as the steering wheel doesn't come off in your hands and FSD is trash.

We don't talk much about BMW, Cadillac, Audi, Jaguar, Rivian... looking at all those names, now I remember why... $$$

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:26 pm

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:11 pm You know, I wrote EV6 up there but I personally think the Ioniq 5 is a better option (having only done online research and never actually seen one in person).

Are there *any* EVs that I should avoid? It sounds like there are only a handful, and no one says anything bad about any of them.

I would avoid the Leaf - outdated connector type (CHAdeMO) and last I checked, no active thermal management on the battery. Beyond that, it's really just deciding what you value vs what you are going to pay. Oh, when you get down to a few you are really interested in, look up youtube videos on their computer/infotainment systems. For instance, reviews on the ID.4 operating system aren't stellar, but some people have no issue with it.

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:54 pm

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:26 pm

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:11 pm You know, I wrote EV6 up there but I personally think the Ioniq 5 is a better option (having only done online research and never actually seen one in person).

Are there *any* EVs that I should avoid? It sounds like there are only a handful, and no one says anything bad about any of them.

I would avoid the Leaf - outdated connector type (CHAdeMO) and last I checked, no active thermal management on the battery. Beyond that, it's really just deciding what you value vs what you are going to pay. Oh, when you get down to a few you are really interested in, look up youtube videos on their computer/infotainment systems. For instance, reviews on the ID.4 operating system aren't stellar, but some people have no issue with it.

Seconded on both.

Also would nix the Bolt series due to no fast charging, but since it sounds like GG isn't going to care about fast charging, nix the nix.

The Leaf model isn't long for current production anyway. There will be a 2024 model, but who knows how many more?

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:10 pm Also would nix the Bolt series due to no fast charging, but since it sounds like GG isn't going to care about fast charging, nix the nix.

Now now - it might not be the fastest charging, but by current definitions it does have fast charging. For GG - the Bolts top out at 50 kW DC charging (takes about 40 minutes to go from 10%-80% state of charge). The majority of vehicles can do 150 kW DC with the appropriate charges (the Mach E can do this but still takes about 35 minutes to go 10-80% because it has a much bigger battery). Only 5-10 can currently get up to the 250 kW range (these are the ones that can do 10-80% in around 20 minutes). As mentioned, though, this only matters for road trips.

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:11 pm You know, I wrote EV6 up there but I personally think the Ioniq 5 is a better option (having only done online research and never actually seen one in person).

A friend has an Ioniq 5 and is a huge fan.

stessier wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:50 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:10 pm Also would nix the Bolt series due to no fast charging, but since it sounds like GG isn't going to care about fast charging, nix the nix.

Now now - it might not be the fastest charging, but by current definitions it does have fast charging. For GG - the Bolts top out at 50 kW DC charging (takes about 40 minutes to go from 10%-80% state of charge). The majority of vehicles can do 150 kW DC with the appropriate charges (the Mach E can do this but still takes about 35 minutes to go 10-80% because it has a much bigger battery). Only 5-10 can currently get up to the 250 kW range (these are the ones that can do 10-80% in around 20 minutes). As mentioned, though, this only matters for road trips.

Always miles when talking fast charging, plz. 10-80 is nebulous without more context.

For example, right now at an older Supercharger in the X we added 230 rated miles in 42 min. Topped out at 140 kW, added 66 kWh. 4% to 80%. Miles/minute stopped is really all that matters to the driver.

At this point, my intention is to wait until the end of next year, at which point I may be looking to relocate to a new metro area, new house, acquire solar panels, and get an EV.

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:47 pm At this point, my intention is to wait until the end of next year, at which point I may be looking to relocate to a new metro area, new house, acquire solar panels, and get an EV.

That is quite the collection of projects!