Octopus Overlords

Oh man, that makes me wanna vote for her twice!

...just like I did for Biden in 2020.

LordMortis wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:30 pm

Some smart ass metal band needs to jump on that for an album cover.

Find someone who loves you like Gus Walz loves his dad.

Jaymann wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:54 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:30 pm

Some smart ass metal band needs to jump on that for an album cover.

I would vote for that in a heartbeat. Put it on a poster. I'm all in!

LordMortis wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:30 pm

Someone needs to do this with Jd and a couch.

There are few people who can deliver a speech as well as Obama. And while he's not quite there yet, Pete Buttigieg comes close. I really hope he runs for POTUS someday.

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:06 am There are few people who can deliver a speech as well as Obama. And while he's not quite there yet, Pete Buttigieg comes close. I really hope he runs for POTUS someday.

IMO, Barack was right - he's the only one crazy enough to follow Michelle. Hers was better IMO, then his, and Pete's a REAL close third, if not tied with Obama. I could probably listen to him talk for an hour because most of it is not fluffy bullshit. I had absurdly high expectations for all three, and all three delivered.

Walz was also great, very exciting, and very short and sweet.

Clinton's was a bit sad to watch, honestly. It also shows you how some people just age better or worse than others. My Dad is 83 and he is much more vivacious looking, sounding, etc. than the much younger Clinton. Doesn't shake, etc. Cringe moments when he started mispronouncing Kamala's name over and over as well...shadows of Biden there.

Kamala better knock it out of the park considering all the great speakers before her, but unless she screws it up completely, the energy has been built and is ready to unleash.

Side note: is it me, or are they intentionally trolling the R's and using songs and artists that specifically and publicly said that they would not allow R's to use their music? I heard U2, Neil Young, and a few others that I know had either cease and desist letters, or some kind of public statement.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 10:32 am
IMO, Barack was right - he's the only one crazy enough to follow Michelle. Hers was better IMO, then his, and Pete's a REAL close third, if not tied with Obama. I could probably listen to him talk for an hour because most of it is not fluffy bullshit. I had absurdly high expectations for all three, and all three delivered.

I have to agree. Michelle Obama is just an amazing speaker. My MAGA coworker is now posting the usual crap about her being actually named "Michael" and insisting she's a man. I mean, why do these people bother trying to deny they're homophobic, racist assholes when confronted on this shit? Own it. Just admit that minorities and members of the LGBQT community scare you senseless and you hate them for it.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 10:32 am

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:06 am There are few people who can deliver a speech as well as Obama. And while he's not quite there yet, Pete Buttigieg comes close. I really hope he runs for POTUS someday.

IMO, Barack was right - he's the only one crazy enough to follow Michelle. Hers was better IMO, then his, and Pete's a REAL close third, if not tied with Obama. I could probably listen to him talk for an hour because most of it is not fluffy bullshit. I had absurdly high expectations for all three, and all three delivered.

Walz was also great, very exciting, and very short and sweet.

...

I think the Dems are incredibly fortunate to have as many gifted speakers as they do. Not everyone has to be the Obamas to be effective. AOC, Warnock, Wes Moore, Crockett and others have done excellent jobs. The future of the party is bright, and if anything, the party needs needs more events that highlight some, if not all, of them.

Does anyone else who is watching the convention feel ... the weight of the shift, for lack of a better term, from the election (and future elections) being framed as this is inexorable, grim struggle that must be won to save democracy, to something joyous, full of excitement and possibility? It's like the Democrats realized that they too were trapped in "the politics of darkness" (to borrow Buttigieg's phrase) in an effort to match Republicans.

Biden will go down in history as one of the best presidents we ever had due in no small part to his sacrificing a second term for the good of his country. Someone like Trump would never in a billion years have that amount of selflessness.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 10:32 am Side note: is it me, or are they intentionally trolling the R's and using songs and artists that specifically and publicly said that they would not allow R's to use their music? I heard U2, Neil Young, and a few others that I know had either cease and desist letters, or some kind of public statement.

Rachel Maddow supposedly confirmed that every artist from the roll call was one who has asked the Trump campaign not to use their songs. I have not confirmed that Maddow actually confirmed this.

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 11:01 am Biden will go down in history as one of the best presidents we ever had due in no small part to his sacrificing a second term for the good of his country. Someone like Trump would never in a billion years have that amount of selflessness.

I strongly agree. He accomplished a lot in his single term despite considerable adversity, reoriented economic policy for the better, reversed most of the damage trump did to our alliances, and had the humility to step down when convinced that he would probably lose and take Congress with him. His presidency wasn't without missteps, but he greatly exceeded expectations. He's the most successful president of my lifetime and belongs in the top 10.

He is a true patriot and did everything his country asked of him. I am surprised again and again at how much I like/respect him, even if it did take him about a minute to decide to step down. I can't say it enough nor for enough reasons, thank you, Joe!

Dogstar wrote:Does anyone else who is watching the convention feel ... the weight of the shift, for lack of a better term, from the election (and future elections) being framed as this is inexorable, grim struggle that must be won to save democracy, to something joyous, full of excitement and possibility?

I think it's an intentional (and brilliant) campaign strategy, and long overdue. Running on "saving democracy" like Biden was doing was completely ineffective. It's something the average American can't grasp, and like climate change it's such a big problem that people find it easier to just dismiss than to really think about tackling it. On top of that, it fed into the Republican ego - it made them sound scary and powerful and indeed *capable* of tearing down the government and rebuilding it in their image.

Harris is definitely tapping into the Obama playbook and steering the campaign towards a positive, hopeful message. I think it has been particularly effective because it separates her from Biden. Biden, for all his accomplishments, was definitely a backwards-looking campaigner. "I did this, we accomplished this, we did that." I don't think he was every really able to articulate the promise of a brighter future like other candidates such as Obama and even Bill Clinton did.

I suspect behind the scenes there will be and probably is a lot of rancor between Biden and his team and the major D players, though, including the Obamas. They basically all went out there and said "you can almost FEEL the difference, it's better now, we have hope now!" and Biden and co are sitting there listening to that going WTF?!?

But, this is a big boy game, and shit had to be said and done. Based on everything I read and if you read between the lines of his and others around him after the fact, it was not some graceful exit. Sounds like he was voluntold (mostly by Pelosi apparently). But still, he did it, and he COULD have fought it more I guess (without most of the party support however).

It doesn't take away his presidential track record, and I do think it will only burnish his legacy as Clinton said, when the details get fuzzy with time, but there was PLENTY of grumbling and pushback.

Leave the dark stuff to The Lincoln Project. They are masters of it and DonOld sent them a cease and desist letter. Their response was: Go ahead and sue, we dare you.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:10 pm I suspect behind the scenes there will be and probably is a lot of rancor between Biden and his team and the major D players, though, including the Obamas. They basically all went out there and said "you can almost FEEL the difference, it's better now, we have hope now!" and Biden and co are sitting there listening to that going WTF?!?

I think the deference and respect they paid Biden for much of the opening days softened that sentiment, if it even existed in Biden.

One challenge we face is is that a significant number of people don’t understand how our democracy works. They think the president is an elected king. They think congress should just do what he (and it can only ever be a he) says.

I love how Jamie Raskin reminded Vance that there was an opening for VP since they tried to hang his predecessor.

I Sen. Elizabeth Warren. I've always thought she was a powerful speaker and she threw in a hilarious couch reference. I'm sure that punchline will overstay its welcome... after Nov 5.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:10 pm I suspect behind the scenes there will be and probably is a lot of rancor between Biden and his team and the major D players, though, including the Obamas. They basically all went out there and said "you can almost FEEL the difference, it's better now, we have hope now!" and Biden and co are sitting there listening to that going WTF?!?

I think everyone now sees that this was the best possible course. There really aren't any Biden loyalists sitting and fuming over his withdrawal; they're all too busy finding their roles in the new campaign.

Consider: a contested primary involves all kinds of Dem operatives doing their best for their candidate until all but one candidate is out of the race. After that, those operatives don't go home and sulk for four years; instead, they (or the best of them) get hired for the final candidate and hopefully the new administration.

Plus, it's very clear that the Dem establishment is enshrining Biden as the transitional one-term president who stepped in when he was needed and stepped aside when it was necessary. It will be remembered as a story of duty and graciousness and the capstone choice of a lifelong statesman.

Holman wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 9:22 pm
I think everyone now sees that this was the best possible course. There really aren't any Biden loyalists sitting and fuming over his withdrawal; they're all too busy finding their roles in the new campaign.

There is one loyalist left. He has orange skin and a combover and he rants to mostly empty stadiums about it.

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 11:01 am Biden will go down in history as one of the best presidents we ever had due in no small part to his sacrificing a second term for the good of his country. Someone like Trump would never in a billion years have that amount of selflessness.

And don't forget what he sacrificed to run for the first term in the first place. He stepped up when called on. I'm not convinced he would have run if it were anyone other than Trump.

word

Biden also regretted not following Obama. Except he acknowledged Hillary would have been a good President, and his son Beau had just died. There’s some Catholic guilt there about letting Trump win the first time.

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 4:24 pm I think the deference and respect they paid Biden for much of the opening days softened that sentiment, if it even existed in Biden.

Yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for strife and in-fighting. Who suggested the dems were anything but lined up behind Harris? Where did they get this idea?

Unagi wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:52 amword

To your mother.

Agree 100%.

This man sacrificed 4 of his few remaining years on this earth to combat a tyrant. He's a national hero, and that's before his presidency is evaluated.

I’m not going to begrudge Biden any bitterness on his part. He’s served the people for a long time and I’m sure it’s a terrible feeling to not be able to finish the job with a second term. He’s human. But to have the strength of character to put those feelings aside for love of country, that’s greatness. He’s not airing his emotions in public and it’s the media that’s shoveling this narrative. Reporting on Biden’s worrisome lapses while in office was a public service because that had national implications. This reporting on so called infighting now is just hot goss and really who gives a shit?

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 9:57 am

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 4:24 pm I think the deference and respect they paid Biden for much of the opening days softened that sentiment, if it even existed in Biden.

Yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for strife and in-fighting. Who suggested the dems were anything but lined up behind Harris? Where did they get this idea?

It's mostly wishful thinking by Republicans and manufactured drama by bothsides pundits. The instincts of the American media are *very* much against allowing the Dems (the big-tent party with legitimate factions) ever to appear as if they are unified and marching in the same direction.

$iljanus wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:13 am I’m not going to begrudge Biden any bitterness on his part. He’s served the people for a long time and I’m sure it’s a terrible feeling to not be able to finish the job with a second term. He’s human. But to have the strength of character to put those feelings aside for love of country, that’s greatness. He’s not airing his emotions in public and it’s the media that’s shoveling this narrative. Reporting on Biden’s worrisome lapses while in office was a public service because that had national implications. This reporting on so called infighting now is just hot goss and really who gives a shit?

Yeah, the pantheon of one-term presidents is not one to aspire to and Joe believes he still has enough gas in his tank, even if the public doesn't agree. But the club of presidents who died in office isn't one you want to be a member of, either. It will be interesting in an academic way to see what kind of shape Biden is in come January 2028.

Kraken wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:53 am
Yeah, the pantheon of one-term presidents is not one to aspire to and Joe believes he still has enough gas in his tank, even if the public doesn't agree. But the club of presidents who died in office isn't one you want to be a member of, either. It will be interesting in an academic way to see what kind of shape Biden is in come January 2028.

Being president will age you like no other job in the world, unless of course you are a figurehead and do nothing productive and only sign your name when asked to by others, while soaking up the esteem and prestige.

My point is that 4 years as president is like 12 years as not-president. Obama aged visibly from his time in the seat, as a recent example. Biden could have many quality years ahead of him still, if he's not tasked with the most demanding job in the world.

May he surpass Jimmy Carter's endurance.

He's 81. Actuarial table says 7 more years on average. And he's getting better care than average.

Hopefully he can spend those basking in adoration and raking in the dollars just for showing up, like most ex-presidents.

This is how I put in my younger years, when I was more eloquent. Still feel the same way.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:43 pm

I'll accept him. I'm not enthusiastic about it but I'll accept it.

I will say this, he's answering a call to his country as sure as any past candidate, if not more so. He's way too old for this. I don't mean he's too old to do the job, I mean he shouldn't have to do this shit. It's going to shorten his life significantly and he's not too old to enjoy the next 4 years with his family, were he not (hopefully) president. He's going to sacrifice a lot if he wins and he knows it as well as anyone. I'll give him that.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 9:57 am

hepcat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 4:24 pm I think the deference and respect they paid Biden for much of the opening days softened that sentiment, if it even existed in Biden.

Yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for strife and in-fighting. Who suggested the dems were anything but lined up behind Harris? Where did they get this idea?

There were multiple, credible reports and deep dives from credible places like The Atlantic, where they described a Biden (and team, specifically Dr. Jill) that was extremely pissed about being asked, then apparently told, it was time to step down. As at least a few speakers said, including Clinton, in their speeches, just the act of doing that (giving up power) was unusual and should be praised (as it was, and will be). My only point was that there WAS a lot of pushback going on (if credible sources are to be believed, and I read enough to think that yes they were). Which makes sense, especially when the reason is "because you're too old" (not that anyone said that probably).

Again, this was very much a top level, internal thing with Dem leadership, led by Pelosi, and Biden's crew. One of the things I remember reading was that Jill agreed to it only if he were to be treated with utmost respect and praise, etc. And I think that happened, thankfully. Honestly I think it was about as smooth as it could have gone. It wasn't done too much in the press, but mostly seemed to happen behind closed doors, which only helped the bigger cause obviously. Had it gotten really ugly and public, we would not have this thread maybe.

While many speakers were very likely tasked with praising Biden (as they should have), many of the big hitters like the Obamas, but many others, were literally saying "you can almost feel the tension and despair lifted now across the country (among D's)." And it's true! Unfortunately, that IS a knock against Biden, but again, big boy pants, big boy game and all that. While it sucks for Biden that the message is "now that you're gone, we have hope again across the nation to beat this fucker", it had to be done, and had to be said.

No one commenting on Kamala's speech? I thought it was good to very good. Kinzinger was amazing as I expected.

I will say that she seems to have REALLY polished her speaking game since her primary days all those years ago (which makes sense, as I am sure she got plenty of practice as VP).

I have zero qualms in voting for her, and now I just need to try and convince my Moms to do so. Dad is a lost cause.

I, like many American D's, am truly energized again. Thanks Joe - by your stepping aside, you may have possibly saved this country TWICE from Trump. I can't think of any higher praise than that, even though that won't be on a list of his accomplishments.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:57 pm
I have zero qualms in voting for her, and now I just need to try and convince my Moms to do so. Dad is a lost cause.

Just vote for them using their mail in ballots, like we all did in 2020.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:57 pm No one commenting on Kamala's speech? I thought it was good to very good.

It was an excellent speech. She knocked it out of the park.