Octopus Overlords

I thought it was good, but suffered in comparison to the Obamas' speeches. I was pumped up after their speeches. Harris's speech is probably what was required of the moment, though.

ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:40 pm I thought it was good, but suffered in comparison to the Obamas' speeches. I was pumped up after their speeches. Harris's speech is probably what was required of the moment, though.

I thought that #1 NBA rookie pick was good, but suffered in comparison to Michael Jordan.

ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:40 pm I thought it was good, but suffered in comparison to the Obamas' speeches. I was pumped up after their speeches. Harris's speech is probably what was required of the moment, though.

Obama is a once-a-generation talent at these things. But Harris' presence and presentation made clear that she is as presidential as anyone who has ever sought the office.

Not disagreeing. Just saying that I was psyched after the Obamas spoke, but my reaction after Harris was more subdued. They were different types of speeches, though, which would naturally give different outcomes.

Anything short of a Howard Dean scream would get the job done. She did exactly what was called for.

LordMortis wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:30 pm

I don’t care how she spoke; once I saw she was a heavy metal rock star in the 1990s I was in.

And look how respectful to women Tim Walz… I mean that demon is; making sure both his hands are visible in photos.

How will Harris/Walz overcome the RFK endorsement for DonOld? Nikki Haley voters (not endorsed by Nikki Haley, nudge nudge wink wink)!

America is not going to fall to the likes of TFG and his legions of orcs and hobgoblins...unless we're living in a trilogy and this is just the second book.

All I gotta do is take my morning walk and look at my neighbors to know it's far from over. If lower class suburbia in Tliab's district are this commonly MAGAt in a battleground state, then voting needs to occur. If people with any sort of sense of empathy stay at home in any way, it will be meaningful. When I look around daily I have to remind myself to be the person you want others to be and then "try, fail, try again, and fail better."

It’s going to be a tough fight. And if Trump loses, we still have to fix the damage from the rot he’s caused.

hepcat wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 8:05 am It’s going to be a tough fight. And if Trump loses, we still have to fix the damage from the rot he’s caused.

And the Supreme Court, which is arguably a bigger problem than who the next president is.

GOP group claims Kamala Harris is ineligible to be president due to Dred Scott decision

In an official resolution (on page 37 of the NFRA's platform document), the National Federation of Republican Assemblies (NFRA) – a 90 year-old GOP-aligned organization that counted former President Ronald Reagan among its membership — took the position that Harris should not be allowed to hold the office of president, citing several "precedent-setting U.S. Supreme Court cases." Among the six cases the NFRA cited was the Dred Scott v. Sandford decision of 1857, which is regarded as one of the worst SCOTUS decisions of all time, if not the worst ever.

That is one card I genuinely did not expect to see played.

Kraken wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:44 am America is not going to fall to the likes of TFG and his legions of orcs and hobgoblins...unless we're living in a trilogy and this is just the second book.

We're a continuing series, with no announced finale. What you expect in the third book might not happen until a dozen volumes in the future.

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:11 pm That is one card I genuinely did not expect to see played.

It's not particularly surprising that they believe it, but it's a helluva thing to say out loud in the 21st century.

Max Peck wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:42 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:11 pm That is one card I genuinely did not expect to see played.

It's not particularly surprising that they believe it, but it's a helluva thing to say out loud in the 21st century.

Particularly since it has been since amended away into irrelevancy.

Exactly. Not only is it openly extremist, they're opening themselves to that kind of attention without any real benefit - unless it's meant to attract donors.

Colorado (and others) claimed Trump was ineligible because he is an insurrectionist. Just because you make a claim does not mean it has any legal effect. You would have to file and win a bogus lawsuit, which could take years before it is denied.

Edit: And even in the extremely remote chance it is successful it would make Walz the President. I can think of worse things.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:47 pm

Max Peck wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:42 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:11 pm That is one card I genuinely did not expect to see played.

It's not particularly surprising that they believe it, but it's a helluva thing to say out loud in the 21st century.

Particularly since it has been since amended away into irrelevancy.

I hear that the current supreme court has its own ideas about what should or shouldn't be relevant, inconvenient precedent be damned.

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:16 pm

Kraken wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:44 am America is not going to fall to the likes of TFG and his legions of orcs and hobgoblins...unless we're living in a trilogy and this is just the second book.

We're a continuing series, with no announced finale. What you expect in the third book might not happen until a dozen volumes in the future.

Or it might just peter out because the people responsible for writing it just lose the plot and give up...

Outreach without accommodation:



I doubt that MAGA will change, but this may be attractive to undecideds. We can only hope.

Grifman wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:36 am I doubt that MAGA will change, but this may be attractive to undecideds. We can only hope.

To clarify, it might impact some of the undecideds - mainly those that aren't typically motivated to vote so they answer "undecided" rather than take heat about not voting. The other group of "undecided" that won't change are those that are already voting for Trump but don't want to say out loud that was their plan all along.

Regardless, I'm highly, highly suspect of anyone that labels themselves "undecided" or "independent" right now.

So right now they need to be looking at the floor of ~32% of voters that will support the husk of the GOP no matter what insane person is at the national helm, plus some unknown number of the above people (5%? 10% 15?) that will vote for him in November despite answering in a way that might suggest otherwise. Is that enough to win the Electoral College? I guess we'll see.

Things are looking great for the Harris campaign but I'm under no illusion that this is still going to be a lot closer than it should be because of the EC.

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:50 am To clarify, it might impact some of the undecideds - mainly those that aren't typically motivated to vote so they answer "undecided" rather than take heat about not voting. The other group of "undecided" that won't change are those that are already voting for Trump but don't want to say out loud that was their plan all along.

I think there is a 3rd that somehow hope their hot button will be pushed or could be pushed if a candidate would only listen to their demands aka Palestine as example.

Regardless, I'm highly, highly suspect of anyone that labels themselves "undecided" or "independent" right now.

So much this. If the past and present doesn't have you convinced, the next two months, meh. Still, energy is important. This is yet another urgent election is a growing string of urgent elections. Anything to make a decided voter wanting a reasonable civil society that is still sitting at home, well, not sit at home.

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:50 am

Grifman wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:36 am I doubt that MAGA will change, but this may be attractive to undecideds. We can only hope.

To clarify, it might impact some of the undecideds - mainly those that aren't typically motivated to vote so they answer "undecided" rather than take heat about not voting. The other group of "undecided" that won't change are those that are already voting for Trump but don't want to say out loud that was their plan all along.

Regardless, I'm highly, highly suspect of anyone that labels themselves "undecided" or "independent" right now.

So right now they need to be looking at the floor of ~32% of voters that will support the husk of the GOP no matter what insane person is at the national helm, plus some unknown number of the above people (5%? 10% 15?) that will vote for him in November despite answering in a way that might suggest otherwise. Is that enough to win the Electoral College? I guess we'll see.

Things are looking great for the Harris campaign but I'm under no illusion that this is still going to be a lot closer than it should be because of the EC.

Some of the issue with pro-Trump polling in the past are not with people saying that they're undecided but with angry "partial responses". Hopefully other pollsters are correcting for this like Siena has.

Hmm, I'm finding it a little difficult to believe that Trump voters would be the type to be rude, angry, and shouting expletives to strangers. They seem like such lovely people.

In all seriousness, the ONLY two people in the entire neighborhood I've ever had a confrontation with were Trump sign people. And it wasn't even over politics. They just accosted me for sitting at the bus stop minding my own business. Trump voters are definitely a "type." Always angry, always looking for a fight. It's no wonder they want to live in a country where one side is constantly pitted against the other. They live for that shit. They thrive on conflict, drama, and outrage.

YellowKing wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:26 am Hmm, I'm finding it a little difficult to believe that Trump voters would be the type to be rude, angry, and shouting expletives to strangers. They seem like such lovely people.

In all seriousness, the ONLY two people in the entire neighborhood I've ever had a confrontation with were Trump sign people. And it wasn't even over politics. They just accosted me for sitting at the bus stop minding my own business. Trump voters are definitely a "type." Always angry, always looking for a fight. It's no wonder they want to live in a country where one side is constantly pitted against the other. They live for that shit. They thrive on conflict, drama, and outrage.

I'm not sure they thrive on it, but maybe more that it's their comfortable state. They seem to be so constantly angry or pissed off that it has become their normal. Maybe they were like that before Trump, but anecdotally, post Trump, these people have seemed MUCH more...angry at the world.

If you think pollsters get it from these assholes, you should see how they treat Census takers knocking on their doors.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:39 am

YellowKing wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:26 am Hmm, I'm finding it a little difficult to believe that Trump voters would be the type to be rude, angry, and shouting expletives to strangers. They seem like such lovely people.

In all seriousness, the ONLY two people in the entire neighborhood I've ever had a confrontation with were Trump sign people. And it wasn't even over politics. They just accosted me for sitting at the bus stop minding my own business. Trump voters are definitely a "type." Always angry, always looking for a fight. It's no wonder they want to live in a country where one side is constantly pitted against the other. They live for that shit. They thrive on conflict, drama, and outrage.

I'm not sure they thrive on it, but maybe more that it's their comfortable state. They seem to be so constantly angry or pissed off that it has become their normal. Maybe they were like that before Trump, but anecdotally, post Trump, these people have seemed MUCH more...angry at the world.

If you think pollsters get it from these assholes, you should see how they treat Census takers knocking on their doors.

Or just they are in constant state of feeling slighted, like someone stacked the deck against them and they are utilizing an outlet to take back what is rightfully theirs. This state of constantly being wronged justifies why the don't have more, so everyone else be damned. I don't think that necessarily makes them angry though being angry is one natural reaction to the feeling of you are being screwed. I'm not sure what they'd need to get to no longer be in a state of stop taking mine unfairly, even when nothing is being taken at all.

To some extent, I can empathize. School debt forgiveness still ends up a sore spot for me even as I'd like to see a revamp of the way college tuition works, especially by means of providing community service as means to pay for tuition. I can imagine my whole life being guided by that sore spot and accepting rotten illegals getting in to free school, never paying taxes, and getting welfare. It's no way to live. I've already come to resent too many people around me for what horrible people they are. I'm trying to cure myself of that. Applying that annoyance to being slighted by everyone and everything. What a horrible existence. Being driven by the idea that I can't... because everyone else is keeping down while they get propped up on my back and not being able to get past that.

I've been trying really hard to live by the adage I saw recently, "Be defined by the things you love, not the things you hate." It's difficult.

Chicken or egg?

MAGA (and its predecessors) appeals to people with an axe to grind, but MAGA goes out of it's way to sharpen that axe - to produce and maintain that anger and sense of being wronged. The two feed off of each other, and it builds.

Our best chance may be for them to lose so badly that they feel more despair than anger, enough so that it deflates their wrath.

LordMortis wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:35 pm Or just they are in constant state of feeling slighted, like someone stacked the deck against them and they are utilizing an outlet to take back what is rightfully theirs. This state of constantly being wronged justifies why the don't have more, so everyone else be damned.

Because that's the entirety of the right wing media outrage machine. Every single second of every show they watch or every post they see online reinforces how unfair the world is to them and how the "other" (immigrant, non-white, LGBT, etc) is constantly getting a benefit that they're not (even though most of that is bullshit). I imagine it would impossible to sit in that stew and not come away with grievance.

I'm constantly reminded of two quotes (paraphrasing here) when I listen to the neverending spew of grievance:

1. For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
2. Privilege isn't always about the benefits you received. It's often about the challenges or barriers you never had to face in the first place.

I wonder what Trumpsters will complain about next:

pr0ner wrote:I wonder what Trumpsters will complain about next:

"The only media outlet Comrade Kamala and Tampon Tim will appear on is FakeNewsCNN. And I bet they were supplied the questions beforehand."

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:28 pm

LordMortis wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:35 pm Or just they are in constant state of feeling slighted, like someone stacked the deck against them and they are utilizing an outlet to take back what is rightfully theirs. This state of constantly being wronged justifies why the don't have more, so everyone else be damned.

Because that's the entirety of the right wing media outrage machine. Every single second of every show they watch or every post they see online reinforces how unfair the world is to them and how the "other" (immigrant, non-white, LGBT, etc) is constantly getting a benefit that they're not (even though most of that is bullshit). I imagine it would impossible to sit in that stew and not come away with grievance.

I'm constantly reminded of two quotes (paraphrasing here) when I listen to the neverending spew of grievance:

1. For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
2. Privilege isn't always about the benefits you received. It's often about the challenges or barriers you never had to face in the first place.

I’m maybe a little conflicted about this. It feels like those quotes are painting a picture of MAGA that is a bunch of privileged people who see their privilege disappearing and are resentful and angry and hateful about it. I think that 100% nails a slice of MAGA, but I question whether that’s really the heart of MAGA.

Just my gut feeling, but I don’t think most MAGA loyalists are, themselves, part of a privileged class. Watch Trump’s rallies. Look at the interviews of the random MAGAts on the street. These folks are a lot of things, but privileged . . . I don’t think so. Unless we’re talking about a historically privileged class, which I suppose they mostly are, at least by virtue of their overwhelming whiteness. But in terms of personal experience? I’m not so sure. They don’t generally look or sound like people who have been all that privileged.

I think it’s hard to overstate the rural-urban divide in this country right now. And there’s no question how those votes stack up. Rural=MAGA. Urban=not.

Do we really think all those rural MAGA voters are part of the privileged class?

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:28 pm 1. For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
2. Privilege isn't always about the benefits you received. It's often about the challenges or barriers you never had to face in the first place.

I scoffed at the notion that I'm privileged until I learned about #2. I've earned everything that I have and overcome adversity to keep it. But the deck wasn't stacked against me from birth or by class.

Kraken wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:03 am

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:28 pm 1. For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
2. Privilege isn't always about the benefits you received. It's often about the challenges or barriers you never had to face in the first place.

I scoffed at the notion that I'm privileged until I learned about #2. I've earned everything that I have and overcome adversity to keep it. But the deck wasn't stacked against me from birth or by class.

+1

Kurth wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 11:28 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:28 pm

LordMortis wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:35 pm Or just they are in constant state of feeling slighted, like someone stacked the deck against them and they are utilizing an outlet to take back what is rightfully theirs. This state of constantly being wronged justifies why the don't have more, so everyone else be damned.

Because that's the entirety of the right wing media outrage machine. Every single second of every show they watch or every post they see online reinforces how unfair the world is to them and how the "other" (immigrant, non-white, LGBT, etc) is constantly getting a benefit that they're not (even though most of that is bullshit). I imagine it would impossible to sit in that stew and not come away with grievance.

I'm constantly reminded of two quotes (paraphrasing here) when I listen to the neverending spew of grievance:

1. For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
2. Privilege isn't always about the benefits you received. It's often about the challenges or barriers you never had to face in the first place.

I’m maybe a little conflicted about this. It feels like those quotes are painting a picture of MAGA that is a bunch of privileged people who see their privilege disappearing and are resentful and angry and hateful about it. I think that 100% nails a slice of MAGA, but I question whether that’s really the heart of MAGA.

Just my gut feeling, but I don’t think most MAGA loyalists are, themselves, part of a privileged class. Watch Trump’s rallies. Look at the interviews of the random MAGAts on the street. These folks are a lot of things, but privileged . . . I don’t think so. Unless we’re talking about a historically privileged class, which I suppose they mostly are, at least by virtue of their overwhelming whiteness. But in terms of personal experience? I’m not so sure. They don’t generally look or sound like people who have been all that privileged.

I think it’s hard to overstate the rural-urban divide in this country right now. And there’s no question how those votes stack up. Rural=MAGA. Urban=not.

Do we really think all those rural MAGA voters are part of the privileged class?

I can't speak for nationally, but in my purple state, if this was about rural to urban then we would be a blue state, easily and yet TFG won it in 2016 and possibly only lost because because of right to life insanity thought right to life insanity would ride blind MAGA loyalty to a strong victory. That said, feeling slighted is not the same thing as being privileged. If anything it points the other way. It's that feeling that being privileged (nor even just getting/keeping what's their right) is out of reach because that privilege always seems to go to someone else and someone needs to be blamed.

Kurth wrote:They don’t generally look or sound like people who have been all that privileged.

They're being told that the reason they don't feel privileged is because the immigrants/blacks/gays/<insert marginalized group> are the ones that the liberal left are giving all their money and opportunities to.

And they also blame Democrats for the aids to Ukraine and Israel. They want the fund to be used to help them.

Kurth wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 11:28 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:28 pm

LordMortis wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:35 pm Or just they are in constant state of feeling slighted, like someone stacked the deck against them and they are utilizing an outlet to take back what is rightfully theirs. This state of constantly being wronged justifies why the don't have more, so everyone else be damned.

Because that's the entirety of the right wing media outrage machine. Every single second of every show they watch or every post they see online reinforces how unfair the world is to them and how the "other" (immigrant, non-white, LGBT, etc) is constantly getting a benefit that they're not (even though most of that is bullshit). I imagine it would impossible to sit in that stew and not come away with grievance.

I'm constantly reminded of two quotes (paraphrasing here) when I listen to the neverending spew of grievance:

1. For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
2. Privilege isn't always about the benefits you received. It's often about the challenges or barriers you never had to face in the first place.

I’m maybe a little conflicted about this. It feels like those quotes are painting a picture of MAGA that is a bunch of privileged people who see their privilege disappearing and are resentful and angry and hateful about it. I think that 100% nails a slice of MAGA, but I question whether that’s really the heart of MAGA.

Just my gut feeling, but I don’t think most MAGA loyalists are, themselves, part of a privileged class. Watch Trump’s rallies. Look at the interviews of the random MAGAts on the street. These folks are a lot of things, but privileged . . . I don’t think so. Unless we’re talking about a historically privileged class, which I suppose they mostly are, at least by virtue of their overwhelming whiteness. But in terms of personal experience? I’m not so sure. They don’t generally look or sound like people who have been all that privileged.

I think it’s hard to overstate the rural-urban divide in this country right now. And there’s no question how those votes stack up. Rural=MAGA. Urban=not.

Do we really think all those rural MAGA voters are part of the privileged class?

I mean, ultimately when we're talking about MAGA voters we are talking (unfortunately) about millions and millions of people. So no statement about what "MAGA Voters" are like can ever really be literally true - at most we're talking about tendencies, and probably in a very general and shaky way.

Plus, it's very dependent on how you define "privilege". Are most MAGA voters a part of a "privileged class"? Well, if you define that as upper middle class or higher economically, maybe not (I'm hedging because I don't have any actual data). If you define it as "white, straight, Christian", then probably they are. Whether they've taken full advantage of that privilege is one thing, but at a minimum they're not getting pulled over for Driving While Black, and they're not subject to the unconscious bias that many non-whites are subject to every day. That's a form of privilege, whether they recognize it or not.