Octopus Overlords

Lagom Lite wrote:Wow – that is hilarious.

Holman was the Sorcerer!

My friends, the wolves are in a bad position. Last night the Mentalist contacted me. He’s alive and well, and by a stroke of luck included in my Good Guy list:

GOOD GUYS?

redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Lassr
RMC
bb2112
tru1cy
theohall
Grundbegriff

So, both the Mentalist and my two Cabalist brothers are among the above.

BAD GUYS?

Remus West
triggercut
purge
LordMortis
Vorret
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven

Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

Pick me, pick me!

Well so that is kind of cool.

And the only way knowing that Holman was the sorc would help, was that someone would pretend to be the sorc.

But why would that be a good thing? So we would kill him?

Am I missing some mechanic that we could convince a wolf to sacrifice himself to unmask the sorc?

<shrug> Maybe I am missing something on that, but I don't think I am.

Lassr wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

I'd like you to shut it and allow the day to develop without people falling onto the "the known want it this way" crutch.

I also don't like revealing Holman's identity as that knowledge could have been used and was not in danger of being lost to the village.

How could Holman's identity have been used?

Not like someone was going to fake the sorcerer and now we do not have to worry about him jumping on an N-1 vote.

So you hadn't invested any time in trying to figure out who might be playing like the Sorcerer?

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

I'd like you to shut it and allow the day to develop without people falling onto the "the known want it this way" crutch.

I also don't like revealing Holman's identity as that knowledge could have been used and was not in danger of being lost to the village.

How could Holman's identity have been used?

Not like someone was going to fake the sorcerer and now we do not have to worry about him jumping on an N-1 vote.

So you hadn't invested any time in trying to figure out who might be playing like the Sorcerer?

Yes. Newcastle topped my list after yesterday but now we know that not to be true.

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

I'd like you to shut it and allow the day to develop without people falling onto the "the known want it this way" crutch.

I also don't like revealing Holman's identity as that knowledge could have been used and was not in danger of being lost to the village.

How could Holman's identity have been used?

Not like someone was going to fake the sorcerer and now we do not have to worry about him jumping on an N-1 vote.

So you hadn't invested any time in trying to figure out who might be playing like the Sorcerer?

I think we all had, but now that we know who was the sorcerer what difference does it make?

Unless you think that people accusing others of being the sorcerer would have been productive? I don't see how that would be good.

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:Oh, and I almost forgot

 bb2112 
 

Interesting. Did you forget the stance you took on that behavior yesterday?

Nope but I forgot he was on the good guy list. He really doesn't seem to belong there.

Why not?

Without knowing purge's identity, it feels like bb2112 was pushing away from bakhtosh to purge as the field was narrowing. Now if Purge turns out to be wolf, then bb2112 jumps from back from bad guy to good guy but his push was so hard and felt like bakhtosh preservation that he feels evil.

RMC wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

I'd like you to shut it and allow the day to develop without people falling onto the "the known want it this way" crutch.

I also don't like revealing Holman's identity as that knowledge could have been used and was not in danger of being lost to the village.

How could Holman's identity have been used?

Not like someone was going to fake the sorcerer and now we do not have to worry about him jumping on an N-1 vote.

So you hadn't invested any time in trying to figure out who might be playing like the Sorcerer?

I think we all had, but now that we know who was the sorcerer what difference does it make?

Unless you think that people accusing others of being the sorcerer would have been productive? I don't see how that would be good.

No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped. Wolves would try to find him wanting not to kill him, villagers try to find him to get him out of the way but it's really not a top priority since he counts toward the villagers in the numbers. He's really just a nuisance but not the real threat.

Lassr wrote: I was thinking the exact same damn thing. A lot of research in under an hour.

Really? Under an hour?

You realize Newcastle pulled the ChaosraveN-1 two real-life days ago, right?

But, let's cast that aside and pretend that I only had an hour. You really think it's an hour's worth of research or a decent memory?

If you really believe that I had one hour only and I was combing through previous game threads to try to find anything that could possibly support such a theory, then you and Lagom have the right to be stunned.

In the case that I have a semi-functional memory, an hour isn't that long at all and your incredulity would fall into the category of pretense.

RMC wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

I'd like you to shut it and allow the day to develop without people falling onto the "the known want it this way" crutch.

I also don't like revealing Holman's identity as that knowledge could have been used and was not in danger of being lost to the village.

How could Holman's identity have been used?

Not like someone was going to fake the sorcerer and now we do not have to worry about him jumping on an N-1 vote.

So you hadn't invested any time in trying to figure out who might be playing like the Sorcerer?

I think we all had, but now that we know who was the sorcerer what difference does it make?

Unless you think that people accusing others of being the sorcerer would have been productive? I don't see how that would be good.

I was convinced newcastle was the sorcerer so it all works out the same to me. The only confusion would have been if some player later not nameed LL came out to claim newcastle was special role x.

Which actually make remus look off in his demand to hold information.

And oddly enough that make remus look good. He sucks at being helpful when he's good.

Lagom Lite wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

I'd like you to shut it and allow the day to develop without people falling onto the "the known want it this way" crutch.

I also don't like revealing Holman's identity as that knowledge could have been used and was not in danger of being lost to the village.

How could Holman's identity have been used?

Who does/does not mention the Sorcerer. Who suggests that X might be the Sorcerer. Who knows but sometimes hiding the fact that one has information is difficult and that was a piece of information the wolves would all have had. There certainly existed a chance they tip their hands to holding it - particularly as the day went on and them knowing you (the Cabal not you the individual) would know it as well. They may have slipped and treated it as public knowledge. Except now it is public knowledge.

Point is it may or may not have gained us anything to have kept that information secret but it wasn't risking anything to wait so why not allow it to run the course and see what happens first.

LordMortis wrote:

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:Oh, and I almost forgot

 bb2112 
 

Interesting. Did you forget the stance you took on that behavior yesterday?

Nope but I forgot he was on the good guy list. He really doesn't seem to belong there.

Why not?

Without knowing purge's identity, it feels like bb2112 was pushing away from bakhtosh to purge as the field was narrowing. Now if Purge turns out to be wolf, then bb2112 jumps from back from bad guy to good guy but his push was so hard and felt like bakhtosh preservation that he feels evil.

This was the feeling I had but then he had plenty of time to see the writing on the wall with regards to Bahktosh being the one to go so why wouldn't a wolf bb2112 shift his vote when nobody at all joined his purge push?

LordMortis wrote:Which actually make remus look off in his demand to hold information.

And oddly enough that make remus look good. He sucks at being helpful when he's good.

I did not demand. I lamented that it had not been.

Also, screw you. I have led villages to victory before and I will do it again.

Qantaga wrote:

Lassr wrote: I was thinking the exact same damn thing. A lot of research in under an hour.

Really? Under an hour?

You realize Newcastle pulled the ChaosraveN-1 two real-life days ago, right?

But, let's cast that aside and pretend that I only had an hour. You really think it's an hour's worth of research or a decent memory?

If you really believe that I had one hour only and I was combing through previous game threads to try to find anything that could possibly support such a theory, then you and Lagom have the right to be stunned.

In the case that I have a semi-functional memory, an hour isn't that long at all and your incredulity would fall into the category of pretense.

I was not thinking anything about a Chaosraven N-1 game mechanic. I just saw Newcastle was last night's victim, was rather shocked and then saw your post possibly explaining it which links from others game from the past. I posted what I thought at the moment and that is that.

There is a possibility Newcastle was hinting at being the Protector to draw the wolves to kill him. If so, it worked.

Lassr wrote:No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped. Wolves would try to find him wanting not to kill him, villagers try to find him to get him out of the way but it's really not a top priority since he counts toward the villagers in the numbers. He's really just a nuisance but not the real threat.

He's really a crappy role in general to be playing as the villagers won't want to kill him but rather just spend the game ignoring him. The damage he could have done this game by staying alive was to out roles or lie about outing roles. Beyond that his life was the power to make majority more difficult to reach while being able to pile on quickly last minute to kill someone (something I hadn't thought about until NC did it yesterday)

Lassr wrote: I was not thinking anything about a Chaosraven N-1 game mechanic.

Yet, the post by which you question me (in rather heated language "the exact same damn thing") specifically addresses the ChaosraveN-1 mechanic.

You can see my confusion.

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped.

In the specific case of Holman, the wolves did know that Holman was the Sorcerer. They learn the role of their kills.

That's Remus' point that the cabal holding that information under wraps for some time today might have caught a wolf in a slip that implied that they knew the Sorcerer was already dead.

Qantaga wrote:

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped.

In the specific case of Holman, the wolves did know that Holman was the Sorcerer. They learn the role of their kills.

That's Remus' point that the cabal holding that information under wraps for some time today might have caught a wolf in a slip that implied that they knew the Sorcerer was already dead.

Or a cabal member. But I see the point. But I like knowing he was the sorcerer, and it stops all the speculation that Newcastle was the sorcerer. Now we can speculate on what role we think Newcastle might of had.

I am guessing just villager, as I can not see him painting that target on his back if he was anything. <sigh>

Qantaga wrote:

Lassr wrote: I was not thinking anything about a Chaosraven N-1 game mechanic.

Yet, the post by which you question me (in rather heated language "the exact same damn thing") specifically addresses the ChaosraveN-1 mechanic.

You can see my confusion.

wasn't heated language. After reading your post I thought wow he came up with all that after Stessier posted about Newcastle death, and then I read Lagom's post and it was more of a Ha, that's what I was thinking too dude! Damn was just for emphasis on my reaction to both of us thinking the same thing.

If you are doing that kind of research before knowing Newcastle was killed just to find similar situations in the past then I applaud your dedication to the game.

Qantaga wrote:

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped.

In the specific case of Holman, the wolves did know that Holman was the Sorcerer. They learn the role of their kills.

That's Remus' point that the cabal holding that information under wraps for some time today might have caught a wolf in a slip that implied that they knew the Sorcerer was already dead.

Oh yep, forgot the wolves get info on kill and they killed him. Point conceded.

RMC wrote:

Qantaga wrote:

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped.

In the specific case of Holman, the wolves did know that Holman was the Sorcerer. They learn the role of their kills.

That's Remus' point that the cabal holding that information under wraps for some time today might have caught a wolf in a slip that implied that they knew the Sorcerer was already dead.

Or a cabal member. But I see the point. But I like knowing he was the sorcerer, and it stops all the speculation that Newcastle was the sorcerer. Now we can speculate on what role we think Newcastle might of had.

I am guessing just villager, as I can not see him painting that target on his back if he was anything. <sigh>

well that was Qantaga's point earlier. He may have painted that target on his back hoping the wolves let him live knowing the villagers would be looking to lynch him. He can protect himself from the villagers some what but not the wolves (unless he was the hunter).

Realization based on your conversation.

Wolves knew they had killed the Sorcerer.
So they killed newcastle because he was playing sorcerer.
Wolves now know newcastle's role to see what he was getting at.

Hopefully newcastle was just a villager.

No longer "newcastle??"

Lassr wrote: If you are doing that kind of research before knowing Newcastle was killed just to find similar situations in the past then I applaud your dedication to the game.

While I'd love to claim thorough research and dedication, the simple truth is just that I remembered.

Qantaga wrote:

Lassr wrote: If you are doing that kind of research before knowing Newcastle was killed just to find similar situations in the past then I applaud your dedication to the game.

While I'd love to claim thorough research and dedication, the simple truth is just that I remembered.

then I just envy you then...because my memory sucks these days.

Vorret wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Wow – that is hilarious.

Holman was the Sorcerer!

My friends, the wolves are in a bad position. Last night the Mentalist contacted me. He’s alive and well, and by a stroke of luck included in my Good Guy list:

GOOD GUYS?

redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Lassr
RMC
bb2112
tru1cy
theohall
Grundbegriff

So, both the Mentalist and my two Cabalist brothers are among the above.

BAD GUYS?

Remus West
triggercut
purge
LordMortis
Vorret
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven

Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

Pick me, pick me!

Gald this was at the top of the page as I somehow missed it earlier.

You do know you, like me, have already been "released". Rather, you started free of the burden of being listed as "good" where I had to rid myself of it by disagreeing with the actions of the list maker.

Remus West wrote:

Vorret wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote:Wow – that is hilarious.

Holman was the Sorcerer!

My friends, the wolves are in a bad position. Last night the Mentalist contacted me. He’s alive and well, and by a stroke of luck included in my Good Guy list:

GOOD GUYS?

redrun
Unagi
pr0ner
Qantaga
Lassr
RMC
bb2112
tru1cy
theohall
Grundbegriff

So, both the Mentalist and my two Cabalist brothers are among the above.

BAD GUYS?

Remus West
triggercut
purge
LordMortis
Vorret
El Guapo
Scoop20906
Chaosraven

Now, we’ve discussed releasing another name from the Good guy list and into the Bad guy list, but we’re not sure which one. Which player would you like us to release?

Pick me, pick me!

Gald this was at the top of the page as I somehow missed it earlier.

You do know you, like me, have already been "released". Rather, you started free of the burden of being listed as "good" where I had to rid myself of it by disagreeing with the actions of the list maker.

I didn't remove you because you disgreed with me.

Qantaga wrote:

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped.

In the specific case of Holman, the wolves did know that Holman was the Sorcerer. They learn the role of their kills.

That's Remus' point that the cabal holding that information under wraps for some time today might have caught a wolf in a slip that implied that they knew the Sorcerer was already dead.

That's pretty far-fetched. I think it's better to share information that the wolves have but the villagers don't. That Remus thinks different is pretty interesting imo.

Remus is clearly angry. At face value, he seems annoyed by my play, but I wonder if he's not also annoyed that the wolves are doing poorly.

Ah yes, you are correct. I was removed for wanting to discuss the idea that the entire Cabal come forward rather than just one.

BTW, how'd it go with your breathren last night? Where they happy with your play? (don't answer that - just poking at you).

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped. Wolves would try to find him wanting not to kill him, villagers try to find him to get him out of the way but it's really not a top priority since he counts toward the villagers in the numbers. He's really just a nuisance but not the real threat.

Hasn't read the wolf rules, or wants us to think he hasn't read the wolf rules?

Remus West wrote:Ah yes, you are correct. I was removed for wanting to discuss the idea that the entire Cabal come forward rather than just one.

BTW, how'd it go with your breathren last night? Where they happy with your play? (don't answer that - just poking at you).

Yes you are, aren't you.

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped. Wolves would try to find him wanting not to kill him, villagers try to find him to get him out of the way but it's really not a top priority since he counts toward the villagers in the numbers. He's really just a nuisance but not the real threat.

Hasn't read the wolf rules, or wants us to think he hasn't read the wolf rules?

Either or with him. The whole, oops I didn't read that rule only works once and you have to be a newbie. Lassr does not qualify for that, but this is really a rule that the villagers would have no reason to remember, but a wolf needs to ensure he does not 'remember' it too easily. <shrug>

So it's a piece of a possible puzzle but not a hand tip, in my opinion.

LordMortis wrote:

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:Oh, and I almost forgot

 bb2112 
 

Interesting. Did you forget the stance you took on that behavior yesterday?

Nope but I forgot he was on the good guy list. He really doesn't seem to belong there.

Why not?

Without knowing purge's identity, it feels like bb2112 was pushing away from bakhtosh to purge as the field was narrowing. Now if Purge turns out to be wolf, then bb2112 jumps from back from bad guy to good guy but his push was so hard and felt like bakhtosh preservation that he feels evil.

Go look at the timing. I believe I pushed for a silent and voted Purge before the first vote on Baktosh was even cast. So your assertion that I was pushing Purge to save Baktosh is absurd. I find it interesting that people like my premise enough to vote for a silent but decided to vote for a different silent that I was gunning for. I find it disappointing that they were right and I am most likely wrong.

But then I get happy again because we nailed a wolf.

redrun wrote:

Lassr wrote: No one, wolves or villagers, knew who the sorcerer was so not sure what it would have helped. Wolves would try to find him wanting not to kill him, villagers try to find him to get him out of the way but it's really not a top priority since he counts toward the villagers in the numbers. He's really just a nuisance but not the real threat.

Hasn't read the wolf rules, or wants us to think he hasn't read the wolf rules?

read the rules but the right synapses in my brain did not fire until I was reminded.

bb2112 wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

Remus West wrote:

LordMortis wrote:Oh, and I almost forgot

 bb2112 
 

Interesting. Did you forget the stance you took on that behavior yesterday?

Nope but I forgot he was on the good guy list. He really doesn't seem to belong there.

Why not?

Without knowing purge's identity, it feels like bb2112 was pushing away from bakhtosh to purge as the field was narrowing. Now if Purge turns out to be wolf, then bb2112 jumps from back from bad guy to good guy but his push was so hard and felt like bakhtosh preservation that he feels evil.

Go look at the timing. I believe I pushed for a silent and voted Purge before the first vote on Baktosh was even cast. So your assertion that I was pushing Purge to save Baktosh is absurd. I find it interesting that people like my premise enough to vote for a silent but decided to vote for a different silent that I was gunning for. I find it disappointing that they were right and I am most likely wrong.

But then I get happy again because we nailed a wolf.

Nope. The events unfold like this.

LL "Let's not vote for anyone on my list, not come up with a new set of criteria."
The Peanut gallery "Maybe we look at silents"
Pr0ner "If we look at silents can we actually just choose one and lynch them."
Peanut gallery "Hmm... Bakhtosh or Purge fit that description."
bb2112 "That's right. So every one really really need to vote for purge."

BTW, I think a much more reasonable response from you would be. "Then why don't we vote purge today? If he's a wolf then would you think about that, mr choose to vote for bb2112 first."

Anyhoo, if we resign ourselves to a not bb2112 vote because the LL list actually has better odds than yesterday then I suppose I'm still going to backhand vote for bb2112

 withdraw bb2112
accuse purge 
 


If purge drowns than bb2112 is a witch.

I don't know... Purge doesn't seem evil.
Maybe Qantaga.

Unagi wrote:

Qantaga wrote:
From Lagom's list, I think the two least likely to contribute and provide ongoing data are purge and  Bakhtosh 
 

Bak or Scoop were the two from that I was most willing to test today.

I'll join you.  Bakhotosh 
 

Having just read through pages 14 - 18. Both Unagi and Qantaga could have gone after Purge, pointing at BB2112 as the instigator of the lynch. Both of them could have dragged Grund back into the mix. Both of them picked Bakhtosh, and got the train started.

So, I'm playing a "change sides in any disagreement" card, and changing my option to very likely good for these two.

Vorret wrote:I don't know... Purge doesn't seem evil.
Maybe Qantaga.

I'm voting purge because bb2112 is on LL list and I can't vote bb2112 based on that list.

If purge gets a pass then my next choice is either you theo, essentially returning to yesterday's stance. My initial instinct was always you.

redrun wrote:So, I'm playing a "change sides in any disagreement" card, and changing my option to very likely good for these two.

Short of preemptively hanging him out to dry, I concur. I also add chaosraven and pr0ner into that mix as well.